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Message boards : General discussion : Philosophical Question

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Allen Paschke
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Joined: 12 Nov 15
Posts: 19
ID: 428118
Credit: 28,656,141
RAC: 22,073
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (524,398)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (336,087)ESP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (524,974)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (202,497)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,325,061)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,376)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,005,993)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (526,779)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,016,478)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (508,347)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (205,660)321 Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,077,504)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,003,035)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (701,168)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (978,990)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (624,018)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (501,332)WW Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (112,000)GFN Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (790,164)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,185,387)
Message 143904 - Posted: 4 Oct 2020 | 20:44:58 UTC

For these 8 projects, here’s the number of prime numbers discovered in the past 5 years --- 0 for 321, 0 for CUL, 2 for ESP, 5 for GCW, 1 for PSP, 1 for SOB, 1 for TRP and 1 for WOO.

Now that LLR2 is running a “short” double check, using about 1% of the CPU time that the “full” LLR test requires, what are the pros and cons of running LLR2 double checks tasks first, then if LLR2 verifies a prime number, run the “full” LLR task?

If this LLR2 strategy were to work, PrimeGrid could determine if many more numbers are prime in each project:
- Does LLR2 ever not verify a prime number that LLR has discovered?
- I would assume that LLR2 may determine that erroneous numbers are prime numbers, but LLR would verify if it’s a prime number?
- Is there any knowledge of the probability of LLR2 missing a prime number?

Philosophical Question --- Is it better to run many more tasks to try to find a prime number, and possibly missing a prime number OR continue the current more thorough methodology?

Profile GrebulonerProject donor
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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 4 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 3 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 4 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,176,149)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,858,937)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,582,913)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,454,599)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,682,210)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,715,558)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,072,973)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,058,593)SGS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,259,616)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,191,201)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,376,385)321 Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (55,630,889)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,178,073)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (56,046,594)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (521,014,891)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,468,384)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,076,645)AP 26/27 Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (500,106,006)WW Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (157,464,000)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (255,464,633)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (126,200,096)
Message 143905 - Posted: 4 Oct 2020 | 20:59:07 UTC - in response to Message 143904.

The double check tasks are made from the information gathered by the first (long) task. I think quantum computing is required to do it in reverse :).

I think you have LLR vs. LLR2 a little mixed up. The same primality calculation is run by both programs. LLR2 adds additional steps so that the work can be verified as correct in a very short amount of time, as well as some error-handling algorithms, while LLR requires a duplicate and matching complete calculation.

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Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,132,712)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,804,281)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,021,269)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,751,038)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,718,606)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,963,361)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (28,076,000)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (77,916,132)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 143906 - Posted: 4 Oct 2020 | 21:07:03 UTC

It's not possible, unfortunately.

Here's the LLR2 work flow:

1) Main task: Does normal calculation, and also saves a mathematical "proof of work". When the task is done, both the normal result (the regular residue) and the proof data are sent to the server.

2) The server processes the proof, creating the data necessary for the DC task and the expected "secret residue".

3) The DC task is run on a host (probably not the same hast that ran the main task, but it doesn't matter if it is), and the result (a residue) is sent back to the server.

4) The server compares the residue produced by the DC task to the secret residue it created in step 2. If they match, then the original task was correct.

It's impossible to run the DC task (step 3) without first running step 2, which creates the data for step 3. And it's impossible to run step 2 without the data from step 1.

The Fast DC isn't really a double check in the normal sense. It is not checking for primality like the main task. It's a verification that the main task is correct. You can't run the verification without first getting the data from the main task.

Think of it like grading a test. You can't grade the test until after the student takes the test.
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Allen Paschke
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Joined: 12 Nov 15
Posts: 19
ID: 428118
Credit: 28,656,141
RAC: 22,073
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (524,398)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (336,087)ESP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (524,974)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (202,497)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,325,061)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,376)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,005,993)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (526,779)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,016,478)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (508,347)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (205,660)321 Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,077,504)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,003,035)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (701,168)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (978,990)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (624,018)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (501,332)WW Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (112,000)GFN Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (790,164)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,185,387)
Message 143912 - Posted: 4 Oct 2020 | 23:37:56 UTC - in response to Message 143906.


Thank you. That makes alot of sense.

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Message boards : General discussion : Philosophical Question

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