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Message boards : General discussion : What happens to LLR2 if one person is using app_info?

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numbermaniac
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,884)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,992,942)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (508,863)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,146,996)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (502,390)321 Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (512,303)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (503,510)PPS Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,577,628)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,269)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (32,679)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (161,720)GFN Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,739)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (141,661)
Message 143169 - Posted: 9 Sep 2020 | 8:26:16 UTC

As I understand it, app_info pretty much allows a user to use any program they want to run a task as long as they return a valid result. This can mean, for example, using an older version of LLR instead of the latest version.

What happens to the workflow of LLR2 if someone is using app_info, aka anonymous platform, in an LLR2-enabled project? Normally one person does a full run of the task and then another person double-checks it using the quick method. I can think of 2 scenarios:

1) If the first person is using app_info to run regular LLR, then the special certificate files aren't uploaded, so I guess they can't be used for quick double-checking -- does the second person then have to do a full test or does something else happen instead?

2) If the first person uses LLR2 and generates the certificates, but the second person is running regular LLR using app_info ... will the task simply error for them, or will they just have to do a full test instead?

Hopefully the questions I've asked make sense - thanks in advance. :)
____________
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Pavel Atnashev
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Discovered 3 mega primesEliminated 2 conjecture "k"s321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,980,856)Cullen LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (71,772,873)ESP LLR Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (792,977,917)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,073)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (133,968,831)PSP LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (273,829,354)SoB LLR Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,010,504,273)SR5 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (100,345,041)TRP LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (257,876,275)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,756,356)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (24,029)
Message 143170 - Posted: 9 Sep 2020 | 9:33:43 UTC - in response to Message 143169.

BOINC server expects a certain number of files uploaded in a LLR2 task. If not all files are present when the tasks errors out and a new one is generated in the same workunit. For a certificate validation task, BOINC server expects a specific result. If it gets anything but it, the task errors out and a new one is generated in the same workunit. If validation repeatedly fails then admin action is required. Something's messed up.

Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,132,712)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,804,281)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,021,269)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,751,038)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,718,606)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,963,361)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (28,076,000)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (77,916,132)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 143173 - Posted: 9 Sep 2020 | 10:59:53 UTC - in response to Message 143169.

As I understand it, app_info pretty much allows a user to use any program they want to run a task as long as they return a valid result. This can mean, for example, using an older version of LLR instead of the latest version.

What happens to the workflow of LLR2 if someone is using app_info, aka anonymous platform, in an LLR2-enabled project? Normally one person does a full run of the task and then another person double-checks it using the quick method. I can think of 2 scenarios:

1) If the first person is using app_info to run regular LLR, then the special certificate files aren't uploaded, so I guess they can't be used for quick double-checking -- does the second person then have to do a full test or does something else happen instead?

2) If the first person uses LLR2 and generates the certificates, but the second person is running regular LLR using app_info ... will the task simply error for them, or will they just have to do a full test instead?

Hopefully the questions I've asked make sense - thanks in advance. :)


This is, indeed, one of those changes that will break tasks on computers running app_info. We try to avoid this when possible, but this is not one of those times.

LLR2 fast double checking is not backwards compatible with the old LLR.
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Found 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (529,293)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (611,298)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (139,922)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,236)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,019,473)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (212,242)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (466,812)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (145,419)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (112,277)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (342,501)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (109,455)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (175,037)PPS Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (10,113)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (12,129)WW Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,640,000)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,707,013)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,614,290)
Message 143175 - Posted: 9 Sep 2020 | 11:15:23 UTC

I guess a user can (in theory) redirect the task to any software they want, using app_info, as long as that software produces precisely the same output (same number of files and same contents in the files) as does LLR2, the "official" program in the relevant subproject.

As said above, should the alternative software produce something else, that should be marked as either "error" or "invalid" (and not affect other users). Clearly, standard old LLR is not capable of producing the Pietrzak checkpoints or whatever LLR2 uses.

/JeppeSN

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Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,011,570)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,009,374)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,009,221)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,012,217)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,259,650)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,044,081)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,064,750)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,002,051)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,001,295)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,002,411)Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,013,921)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,004,228)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,047,667)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,866,490)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,043,271)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,015,177)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,045,194)WW Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,012,000)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (55,355,287)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,301,443)
Message 143178 - Posted: 9 Sep 2020 | 13:27:04 UTC

I strongly suggest against using app_info with LLR2. LLR2 is still a work in progress, it's developing rapidly and different versions or file formats may be incompatible. We can sort this out on the server side, but only when server is sure which LLR version has been used on client. Sticking to specific version with app_info may cause incompatible results, not accepted by server, wasting CPU time.

Note that if app_info was used only to disable badly performing AVX-512, now it must be done in different way, using app_config statement:

<cmdline>-c -oCPUSupportsAVX512F=0</cmdline>


(I've omitted other app_config entries describing application and plan class).

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Message boards : General discussion : What happens to LLR2 if one person is using app_info?

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