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Message boards : Problems and Help : Instant Errors (and a few questions!)

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MR
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Message 72106 - Posted: 10 Jan 2014 | 6:43:03 UTC

Howdy folks, I'm (very) new here. Decided to put my crappy laptops to good use, I guess :) I was initally going to run Collatz only but my friend joined me and his computer is equally as bad as my 2nd one, so primegrid it is! I'm currently only running TRP sieve/PPS sieves.

Anyways, earlier today I had to abort quite a few WUs (I believe that's the correct terminology) because they just flat-out died upon "starting". Did a quick un/reinstall of BOINC and it works again. Is there a common reason why this happens? I had a few look arounds at some threads but the cause varied widely. I was messing around with some overclocking software so that might have done it. SetFSB, Afterburner, precision, etc. to name a few.

Also, I'm looking at building a gaming computer that will hopefully lend itself to stuff like this. Is there a specific area that I could ask about GPUs and whatnot here?

Lastly, I manually adjusted some numbers on my (better) laptop to prevent the cue from building so rapidly, but I wasn't really sure what I was doing. On the (junk) laptop, there are so many PPS sieves there that I can never finish them in time, and I certainly have no desire to abort 10+ of them when it's not necessary.

Any input and/or help would be mucho appreciado! (I took French, so forgive me).

-Mike




Profile Gary Craig
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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,893,273)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,440,687)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,738,876)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,292,626)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,648,951)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,653,927)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,558,341)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,748,705)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,335,713)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,602,818)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,282,622)321 Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (740,566)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (59,788,598)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,143,068)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (524,673,938)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,130,821)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,074,710)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (43,842,888)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (224,648,943)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (62,378,755)
Message 72108 - Posted: 10 Jan 2014 | 10:27:03 UTC - in response to Message 72106.

BOINC estimates for PrimeGrid task runtimes are notoriously unreliable. BOINC just isn't set up to do that well when there are multiple subprojects with wildly variable run-times and also both CPUs and GPUs in the mix. On newly-seen computers, it is particularly bad... after a while, it may settle down.

If you've downloaded way too much work, abort the excess. There's no shame in that. Of course BOINC in its wisdom may decide to go grab another huge pile. Most people like to run with a very small cache, something like 0.01 days or even zero... set this on the boinc gui manager preferences window, network tab.

PrimeGrid GPU work is not tolerant of overclocking... stay away from that. CPU work can be o/c'd to some degree if you keep the core temp's reasonable. Be advised that PrimeGrid in general is very intensive for both GPU and CPU, compared to other projects (or anything else you might be doing on the laptops).

I'm sure others will chime in with more advice.

--Gary

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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,038,739)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,074,615)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,028,743)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,142,353)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,285,482)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,232,103)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,934,612)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,053,250)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,152,318)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,025,737)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,811)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,770,672)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (944,431)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,813,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (339,850,817)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,446,797)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (33,140,471)WW Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,884,000)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (49,144,415)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,457,430)
Message 72114 - Posted: 10 Jan 2014 | 12:16:03 UTC - in response to Message 72106.
Last modified: 10 Jan 2014 | 12:28:34 UTC

Howdy folks, I'm (very) new here. Decided to put my crappy laptops to good use, I guess :) I was initally going to run Collatz only but my friend joined me and his computer is equally as bad as my 2nd one, so primegrid it is! I'm currently only running TRP sieve/PPS sieves.


Also, I'm looking at building a gaming computer that will hopefully lend itself to stuff like this. Is there a specific area that I could ask about GPUs and whatnot here?

-Mike


As for which gpu to use there is a link on the home page called 'fastest gpus' and it shows the different gpus here at PrimeGrid right now and how fast they are as compared to other gpus crunching here. Here is an easy link to it:
http://www.primegrid.com/gpu_list.php

The fastest one you can afford is the best one to get, as tomorrow they will come out with a better and faster one. One hint is to NOT chase the drivers always upgrading to the latest and greatest one unless you are a gamer. The gpu makers main customers are gamers, not us crunchers, so the newest software may be very good for gaming but always so good for crunching. Once you find a driver that works keep your eye on the message boards and other crunchers will tell you if the newest drivers will help or hurt the crunching speeds. The two latest Nvidia drivers cut most crunching times by 10% or more for instance, Nvidia is 'looking into it' but since gaming in their market who knows if things will really change or not. AMD/ATI just released new redesigned cards, the R8 and R9 series, that no longer have the 'cal' part on them, they are no longer plug and play by default here at PG.

One last thing, don't go whole hog as the electrical costs are HUGE!! Running a brand new 6 or 8 core cpu with a top of the line gpu in it can make a difference in budget you have for the local power company. I have multiple pc's and gpu's and my electric bill is over twice what my neighbors is, we are talking over $500 US per month!!

Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,810,528)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,624,591)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,021,269)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,751,038)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,718,606)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,963,361)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,032,000)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (77,916,132)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 72115 - Posted: 10 Jan 2014 | 13:02:48 UTC - in response to Message 72106.
Last modified: 10 Jan 2014 | 17:33:32 UTC

Howdy folks, I'm (very) new here. Decided to put my crappy laptops to good use, I guess :) I was initally going to run Collatz only but my friend joined me and his computer is equally as bad as my 2nd one, so primegrid it is! I'm currently only running TRP sieve/PPS sieves.


Welcome to PrimeGrid!

Anyways, earlier today I had to abort quite a few WUs (I believe that's the correct terminology) because they just flat-out died upon "starting". Did a quick un/reinstall of BOINC and it works again. Is there a common reason why this happens? I had a few look arounds at some threads but the cause varied widely. I was messing around with some overclocking software so that might have done it. SetFSB, Afterburner, precision, etc. to name a few.


I think you may have answered your own question.

Also, I'm looking at building a gaming computer that will hopefully lend itself to stuff like this. Is there a specific area that I could ask about GPUs and whatnot here?


If you listen to what I'm going to say, you'll probably end up saving a boat load of money and have a computer that is great for playing games. However, it won't be a computer that will give you lots of bragging rights, and it won't be the greatest crunchinig machine. If you want something that's flashy and impresses your friends, ignore this. If you want something that racks up credit at an amazing rate, I would have completely different advice. This is for building a computer that's great at playing games.

First of all, I'm going to make some assumptions here: 1) You're not going to buy a 3D computer monitor, and 2) you're not going to buy three identical computer monitors for that "wrap-around' gaming affect. (It's ok if you have two monitors because you'll only be gaming on one of the two.) Both 3D and triple monitors increase the required computing power significantly and would change my recomendations.

The important thing about building a gaming system is to make sure you're spending money on things that actually make a difference. It's very easy to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on flashy top-of-the-line parts that don't make any difference at all in actual game play. Save money on those parts and you can spend it on parts that DO matter.

Until about 5 or so years ago, it was very difficult to play quality games because the computers weren't fast enough. That's changed. CPUs and GPUs are much faster today. It's not hard, or expensive, to build a good gaming rig. You just need to know what you're doing.

90% of the game computing is done on the video card. The CPU actually doesn't do much anymore. Spending $1000 for the latest Haswell CPU is, for gaming purposes, flushing $1000 down the toilet. You don't need it. I'll get to the GPU in a moment, but for the computer itself, there's only a few requirements:

1) Get a middle of the pack CPU. Something like a Core i3. (Core i3 isn't the bottom of Intel's line; it's the middle of 5 brands: Celeron, Pentium, Core i3, Core i5, Core i7). It has the additional benefit of having a built-in graphics processor that you can use if your real GPU dies. You'll have to set all the game settings to minimum values, but most games would still be playable like that, plus you can use the computer for non-gaming stuff while you get the GPU fixed or replaced.

2) The case has to be large enough to accommodate a full size GPU. A smaller than normal case might not hold a full size card.

3) The motherboard needs a 16x PCI-E slot. Most do.

4) A minimum of 6GB of ram. 8 or more is better.

5) A decent 600W power supply.

6) Optional: SSD (solid state disk) will greatly speed up boot, game load, and scene transition times. Stay FAR AWAY from OCX. They've had reliability problems and are either going out of business or are out of business.

Since those requirements are not all that high, I recommend buying a really inexpensive brand name computer on sale at a local store. Around here, I watch the weekend circulars for sales on HP or Compaq desktops at BestBuy -- I could usually find a suitable desktop for about $400 -- at least for everything other than the power supply. You'll need to buy a new power supply as any pre-built system is going to have a very small power supply. A new PS should cost between $50 and $100.

Latest souped up mother board and chipset? Irrelevant. High speed ram? Won't make a difference. A plain vanilla computer is much faster than it needs to be to play games well. Anything more is just wasting money.

Here's where you DO spend the money: the GPU.

If all you want to do is play games, you don't need a $1000 GPU, or even a $500 GPU. The top end GPUs today are capable of running multiple monitors or 3D, and most people don't do that. If you have 1 screen and it's not 3D, you only need a middle of the road GPU. On Nvidia, anything with a middle digit of "6" (such as GTX 560) will be fine. You should be able to find those for about $200 to $300 dollars.

Also, note that by gaming, I mean "gaming", not "bragging". That means all game settings turned all the way up, except those that you can't actually see. Keep anti-aliasing at 2x, and don't worry about frame rates above 60Hz.

Summary:
Vanilla computer (Core i3, 8GB): $400
New 600W power supply: $100
GPU: $300
SSD: $100

Total cost: depending on what you get, anywhere from $650 to $900. (Plus monitor.)

If you want to splurge, get a more powerful video card. That's really the only part that's worth it. If you're getting a really high resolution (pixels, not inches) monitor you should get a more powerful GPU.

A rig like that will play every game out there on maxed out settings (except anti-aliasing), and likely will continue to do so for years to come.

If you're worried about being future-proof, and think buying a top-end computer now might be a better idea, it probably isn't. Computers get so much faster after a few years, that if you buy an inexpensive computer today that does EVERYTHING YOU NEED today, with the money you save, you can buy a complete new "middle of the road" computer in a few years. That computer you buy in 2016 or 2018 with the money you save today will be FASTER than the fastest, most expensive computer you can buy today. In the long run, by spending wisely, you not only end up with more money today, but by upgrading more often you have a faster computer tomorrow as well. You win in the short term, and you win in the long term.

Of course, as I said at the beginning, this is for gaming, not crunching. The needs for a gaming rig are much lower than what you might want for crunching.

Also, if you ARE going for the 3D experience, or triple monitors, or triple 3D monitors, you might want to get one of the expensive GPUs. 3D doubles the work the GPU needs to do, and 3 monitors triples the work load, so you'll need the extra GPU computing power. You probably should bump the CPU up to an i5 or i7, too.

Have fun!
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

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Message 72126 - Posted: 10 Jan 2014 | 17:25:40 UTC - in response to Message 72108.


PrimeGrid GPU work is not tolerant of overclocking... stay away from that.


Maybe for NVIDIA but I have 2 Radeon HD 7970s, a Radeon HD 8730M, a Radeon HD 6550D, and a Radeon HD 7770 all overclocked and running PrimeGrid tasks (Genefer and PPS) perfectly. Either I'm insanely lucky, or overclocking is fine on AMD cards.

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Message 72140 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014 | 0:20:01 UTC

Thanks for the replies.

Since I'm not too aware on how to multi-quote here, I'll reply in order.

-Gary,

I did notice the estimates are rather.. meh. But that's to be expected. Way too many variables.

I did reset all my clocks and BIOS settings to default.

-mikey,

I did see that list. It is quite interesting to see some of the older GPUs are up there.

Might you explain what you mean about the R2XX cards though? The 'cal' part? I've been eyeing up a few of those.

Power (electric) is the only utility I pay, so I have a bit of leeway with that. I do appreciate a lower TDW (I believe the term is..) in my laptops, it keeps the electric cost not too high. I believe I'll follow the same principle with the CPU on the PC, as well as the GPU if I can manage. That means no AMD ;)

-Mike,

I did turn off the OC as mentioned above. I also ran a few hardware integrity tests (memtest for the RAM and an intel program for the CPU and found no errors) so my amateur job at overclocking must have been the cause. Running smoothly now. Only a ~10% decrease in speed as well, so I'll stick with the stock numbers.

Your first assumptions were correct. I was a big player of RTCW, if anyone remembers that. I fancy a wired mouse and keyboard, and a single monitor. Any more, and I've overstepped my bounds.

I do understand your point about spending $ on what matters.. I got my current laptop through AVADirect, and since I have nil to zero knowledge on computers, I may very well get my PC built through them. I know home built rigs are nice, but I prefer guaranteed reliability with no learning curve on my part. And the warranty is always nice.

As for CPU, I'm not sure whether to go AMD or Intel. For the record, I'm a much bigger Intel fan. But to get the GPU setup I'd want (prefer), I might have to sacrifice a small bit of CPU muscle. I'm torn between the 3570k, 4670, and perhaps a FX-8350. Right around $200 (+/- $50) is my price point ideally. I know a 3570k can do everything I'd want it to ever do. I just wish the i7 models were a little cheaper :). I do appreciate what hyper-threading brings to the table, but that's just bling factor for me. Nothing I do uses that much CPU.

A full size case, ATX only, is part of my goal. mid size and smaller form factors were a consideration, but I'm just put off by the smaller size TBH. Not that they dont' work.. Falcon Northwest makes a hell of a smaller size PC. I like big towers anyway, but not necessarily huge ones. And they also allow for larger cooling setups. I'm no expert here, but I'll probably be going with air cooling, and some of those are TALL.

I did read a bit about PCIe slots, versions 3 and 2, and about the x1,4,8,16 etc. I'm still confuzzled a bit about the mobo specs though. Some of them list PCI-E 3.0 X16 2+1, or 2+2, or 1+1, etc. I'm really looking for one that has two PCI-E 2.0 x16 slots so I can move onto an SLI setup later on. I want this PC to last.

I'm not very specific as far as ram goes. I know there's some crazy speeds on some ram, but I'm very okay with 1600MHz ram. Preferably low profile, I'm not sure why but I cannot fathom using the tall sticks.

Any thoughts on power supply company? Leaning towards Seasonic right now. Though corsair is in there too. 650-850W is the goal, especially if I'm going to expand later on.

As for hard drives, I'm partial to Intel and Samsung SSD's, and as prices go down, one of those two will surely be my boot drive. 256 or 128GB is right at the sweet spot for me. Not too much cost, and enough for most of my programs (MasterCAM, AutoCAD, Inventor, SolidWorks, etc.).

I have thought about buying a readily available model and swapping in/out components to get what I need. But my "tech level" (For any NewEgg fans) is currently a 1/5 bars at best. I am not a fan of 200-300$ mobo's. All I really am hoping for is something that can work with 2 video cards later on.. nothing fancy. No 4X GTX Titans for me.

Whilst I do like to turn my settings to "ultra" once in a while for a little "wow" factor, it's certainly not a requirement. Which is where the expandable GPU slot comes into play. I'm aiming for a GTX 760, and another at some time in the future.

1920x1080 is the most I'll ever use tbh.

Appreciate the advice.


Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,810,528)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,624,591)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,021,269)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,751,038)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,718,606)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,963,361)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,032,000)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (77,916,132)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 72141 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014 | 1:01:31 UTC - in response to Message 72140.

One thing I forget to mention about gaming: For online gaming, if at all possible, run an ethernet cable from your computer to the router rather than using wifi. It makes a big difference.

As for CPU, I'm not sure whether to go AMD or Intel.


Intel. This one's a no-brainer.

AMD's implimentation of the AVX instruction set is awful. All of PrimeGrid's CPU primality apps (LLR and Genefer) can take advantage of AVX. At least on Intel they can, and AVX typically boosts performance by about 40%.

On AMD essentially AVX provides no speed boost, and isn't used.

But to get the GPU setup I'd want (prefer), I might have to sacrifice a small bit of CPU muscle. I'm torn between the 3570k, 4670, and perhaps a FX-8350.


Don't. Buy a cheaper GPU if you have to -- you can always upgrade that later. But you can't switch from AMD to Intel without swapping motherboards, so you're looking at essentially buying a new computer.

If you can't afford an i7, get an i5 or i3 rather than AMD. That AVX boost is like buying a 40% faster CPU when running many of our apps.

I did read a bit about PCIe slots, versions 3 and 2, and about the x1,4,8,16 etc. I'm still confuzzled a bit about the mobo specs though. Some of them list PCI-E 3.0 X16 2+1, or 2+2, or 1+1, etc. I'm really looking for one that has two PCI-E 2.0 x16 slots so I can move onto an SLI setup later on. I want this PC to last.


Unless you have a flamboyant video setup (3D, multiple monitors, or high resolutions), which you've said you don't want, you won't need -- and more importantly, don't want -- SLI or Xfire. You're better off with a single GPU that can drive the screen than with multiple, slower GPUs. You certainly don't need more than what a single high-end GPU can provide today for gaming purposes, so the only reason to use SLI today is if two slower GPUs are less expensive than one fast GPU.

The reason you want to avoid GPU is that sometimes, on some games, you get frame stuttering because the GPUs are synchronizing as well as they should. A single GPU won't have that problem. You're not likely to ever actually need multiple GPUs anymore.

For crunching, if you have multiple GPUs, you can crunch multiple tasks simultaneously, but for gaming you'll never need it.

I'm not very specific as far as ram goes. I know there's some crazy speeds on some ram, but I'm very okay with 1600MHz ram. Preferably low profile, I'm not sure why but I cannot fathom using the tall sticks.


It won't make a difference for gaming. It will make a difference crunching.

Any thoughts on power supply company? Leaning towards Seasonic right now. Though corsair is in there too. 650-850W is the goal, especially if I'm going to expand later on.


Not really. I'll let someone else provide advice for this.

Whilst I do like to turn my settings to "ultra" once in a while for a little "wow" factor, it's certainly not a requirement. Which is where the expandable GPU slot comes into play. I'm aiming for a GTX 760, and another at some time in the future.


What I described plays everything on "ultra", with the exception of only doing anti-aliasing at 2x because I've never met anyone who can tell the difference between 2x and higher.

When my son was getting ready for either his junior or senior year of college, he wanted a desktop gaming computer to replace his laptop. It's a refurbished Gateway with a first generation core i3, a new power supply, and a GTX 470 I got as a warranty replacement when my GTX 280 died. It still plays every game with all the sliders pushed all the way to the right.

So does MY computer -- which is an even older Core2Quad with the GTX 460 I bought as a replacement for the dead GTX 280. What I recommended to you is faster than what we have, and these machines play anything with all the bells and whistles turned on.

10 years ago, if you didn't spend a small fortune buying the fastest computer parts you couldn't play the games at the best settings because the games were written to take advantage of the most powerful computers. People still think that way, and manufacturers certainly still market PCs that way, but that doesn't reflect the reality of today's computers. A middle of the line computer today is significantly more powerful than you need to play games. If you have a trio of 3D displays, which increases computing requirements by a factor of 6, you'll need a top of the line machine. Otherwise, it's just throwing out money.

Crunching, however, is another story. You'll always need as much computer as you can afford.
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Message 72152 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014 | 13:00:40 UTC - in response to Message 72140.

Thanks for the replies.
-mikey,

I did see that list. It is quite interesting to see some of the older GPUs are up there.

Might you explain what you mean about the R2XX cards though? The 'cal' part? I've been eyeing up a few of those.

Appreciate the advice.


No problem in the way you did it...The new AMD cards are now numbered like this:
AMD R7 260x 896
AMD R9 270x 1280
AMD R9 280x 2048
AMD R9 290x 2816

instead of the old 7970, 5870 or whatever. The 2nd column is the number of 'shaders' on each card, the more shaders the faster the card. BUT in their infinite wisdom in redoing the older cards into the newer cards, the new ones are generally faster versions of the old cards, AMD removed the 'CAL' function. I am guessing it is not used for gaming, but is used for crunching at some projects. PrimeGrid for example checks for 'CAL', but apparently doesn't actually use the function, and if it isn't there then you have to do a work around to use the card here. That is all I was trying to say. Michael has said in another thread he may be able to fix the problem once he gets time and puts his mind to it.

One of his many 'jobs' is being the main guy here in the forums, something ALOT of other projects do not do! At some projects you might not see a person like Michael for months or more, even if you ask them a question thru a PM. Michael is to be commended for his perseverance in staying the course and answering all the questions here!!! He has set me straight more then once, and I really do appreciate it!

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,810,528)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,624,591)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,021,269)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,751,038)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,718,606)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,963,361)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,032,000)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (77,916,132)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 72154 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014 | 13:18:18 UTC - in response to Message 72152.
Last modified: 11 Jan 2014 | 13:19:12 UTC

Michael has said in another thread he may be able to fix the problem once he gets time and puts his mind to it.


Forget about that. When we first saw this problem, it looked like the fix might be a simple one. We tested the obvious fix (defining the app as an OpenCL app rather than a CAL app), but the BOINC server code still complains about missing CAL libraries. That idea is completely dead now.

At this point we need to either upgrade to more recent server code (that's a big scary adventure that could create all sorts of other unknown problems) or attempt to modify the existing server code (which is also an adventure.)

Right now there isn't even a plan for how we're going to attempt to address it, but it is a problem that's only going to get worse so something has to be done.
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Message 72164 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014 | 14:28:35 UTC - in response to Message 72140.


Power (electric) is the only utility I pay, so I have a bit of leeway with that. I do appreciate a lower TDW (I believe the term is..)


Close, TDP.

I believe I'll follow the same principle with the CPU on the PC, as well as the GPU if I can manage. That means no AMD ;)


Just a heads up: most BOINC tasks don't use anywhere near AMD's TDP, because of the type of computation they use. Something like Furmark will max it out, but PrimeGrid tasks and DistrRTgen don't even hit 80% of the power draw that Furmark does on my 7970s.

That said, NVIDIA GPUs do still have a lower TDP; just not by as much as it would seem.

As for CPU, I'm not sure whether to go AMD or Intel.


Intel. I'm a massive AMD fanboy, and AMD is several times better value for money, but AMD's high-end CPUs don't even compare with Intel's. A 4820k will absolutely smoke an FX-8350. For distributed computing, even though Intel CPUs are much more expensive in terms of $/performance, they end up being better because to get the same performance from AMD CPUs you need to build two or more computers, which costs much more because of the non-CPU components.

I did read a bit about PCIe slots, versions 3 and 2, and about the x1,4,8,16 etc. I'm still confuzzled a bit about the mobo specs though. Some of them list PCI-E 3.0 X16 2+1, or 2+2, or 1+1, etc. I'm really looking for one that has two PCI-E 2.0 x16 slots so I can move onto an SLI setup later on. I want this PC to last.


As Michael said, SLI/Crossfire are awful. Two 780s in SLI perform at less than 70% the capacity of two 780Tis individually.

I'm not very specific as far as ram goes. I know there's some crazy speeds on some ram, but I'm very okay with 1600MHz ram. Preferably low profile, I'm not sure why but I cannot fathom using the tall sticks.


Good, anything above 1600MHz is a waste of money unless you're building an insanely high-end quad-channel rig with all slots filled.


Since I'm not too aware on how to multi-quote here, I'll reply in order.


You do this:

[quote]textyou'requotinghere[/quote]

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Message 72187 - Posted: 12 Jan 2014 | 1:22:03 UTC

Agreed on the cabled connection. My router only has 4 slots and due to distance I can only hook up my better laptop via cable, but it's much more consistent now.

Is AVX some sort of floating point instruction set? I'm no expert of computers and the descriptions I've read so far are very dense in the "pre-required knowledge to understand this" ratio :)

4670/K appears to have gotten my vote, though the question of price discrepancy will certainly come down to the wire because it's very small. (~$20) I hope the 1150 socket (Haswell) sticks around for a while. I was originally going to use 2011 with a different processor (of course).

As for Xeon, which I don't plan on buying anyways, are they much better at the numbers game than say a top of the line i7? I know they are marketed for servers but that's about all..

I am not as much of a gamer as I once was, certainly. I am more of a fan of crunching right now than I think I'll ever be of games again. My original proposition of 2 GTX 760's in SLI.. would that be appropriate for crunching as a main goal? I know it's more expensive but simply building the computer requires only one, and as prices go down, I can add much more computational gusto with little investment.

Say, if I had a SLI setup, and I was running PPS sieves, would I run 2 at the same speed or would I be running 1 at increased speed? Is there a way to configure that around to suit different subprograms(?)?

I'm still no good at quoting. My apologies D:

Also, while I'm actually typing, I've read many threads on peoples first primes. One thing that is brought up a lot is the number of WU's that were completed before they got their "first". How can I check this for myself? I see a number for tasks.. and the work units under the completed work pages, but I'm not sure which is really which. Do you know what I mean?

Once again, 100x thank you.

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,810,528)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,624,591)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,021,269)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,751,038)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,718,606)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,963,361)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,032,000)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (77,916,132)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 72188 - Posted: 12 Jan 2014 | 1:54:41 UTC - in response to Message 72187.
Last modified: 16 Jan 2014 | 14:26:34 UTC

Agreed on the cabled connection. My router only has 4 slots and due to distance I can only hook up my better laptop via cable, but it's much more consistent now.


I use several gigabit switches around my house to get ethernet cabling to all the places that need it. There's over 20 devices that are on my network, at least some of the time.

I've got several of these in either the 5 or 8 port configurations, plus the broadband wifi router. I like those because they're low power, reasonably priced, are unmanaged (no setup), and just plain work. You can get them on sale from time to time.

Except for the Wii (I'd have to pay extra for an ethernet adapter for it, but it comes with wifi), everything in the house that's not truly mobile is wired into the network.

Is AVX some sort of floating point instruction set? I'm no expert of computers and the descriptions I've read so far are very dense in the "pre-required knowledge to understand this" ratio :)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions

AVX is the latest in a long series of SIMD (Single Instruction Multiple DATA) extensions to the x86 instruction set. Essentially, if allows for performing multiple floating point operations simultaneously. It's intended for use in multimedia processing, but it serves our purposes very well.

(Actualy, AVX2 on the Haswell CPUs is the latest, but AVX2 doesn't help us.)

My original proposition of 2 GTX 760's in SLI.. would that be appropriate for crunching as a main goal?


You can't use SLI/Xfire when crunching. I think if you turn on SLI, you simply can't use CUDA or OpenCL.

You CAN use multiple GPUs, however, just not linked together via SLI. Each one operates independently on its own task.

Say, if I had a SLI setup, and I was running PPS sieves, would I run 2 at the same speed or would I be running 1 at increased speed? Is there a way to configure that around to suit different subprograms(?)?


2 at once, at single speed.

I'm still no good at quoting. My apologies D:


Look a bit to the left and up. See the link that says Use BBCode tags to format your text ? Click on it. It gives you the instructions for all the BBCodes that are used for formatting messages. It's sort of like html, except you use '[' and ']' instead of '<' and '>'. For example, to make something bold you enter:

[b]bold[/b]


To quote something, you enter:


[quote]To quote something, you enter:[/quote]


Or just hit the quote button on this message, and look at the way I did it.

Also, while I'm actually typing, I've read many threads on peoples first primes. One thing that is brought up a lot is the number of WU's that were completed before they got their "first". How can I check this for myself? I see a number for tasks.. and the work units under the completed work pages, but I'm not sure which is really which. Do you know what I mean?


Look on the "Your account" page. At the bottom it lists, for each sub-project, how many tasks you've completed.
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Message 72198 - Posted: 12 Jan 2014 | 11:55:17 UTC - in response to Message 72187.



Say, if I had a SLI setup, and I was running PPS sieves, would I run 2 at the same speed or would I be running 1 at increased speed? Is there a way to configure that around to suit different subprograms(?)?


SLI for crunching is not helpful because each unit runs on its own gpu, they do not share and that is what the SLI cable does. In gaming sharing resources means things can go faster, when the game is designed to use it, but it is not designed that way in crunching, at least for now.

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Message 72203 - Posted: 12 Jan 2014 | 14:21:00 UTC - in response to Message 72187.

As for Xeon, which I don't plan on buying anyways, are they much better at the numbers game than say a top of the line i7? I know they are marketed for servers but that's about all..


A low-end current-generation Xeon will do about the same as a high-end (2011-pin 4th-gen) i7, but a high-end Xeon will blow it out of the water. That said, high-end Xeons cost ~$8000, so they're completely irrelevant to distributed computing on BOINC. They're pretty useful for multi-processor rigs for Folding@Home though, as F@H gives you exponentially more points the quicker you return a WU, and uses multi-threaded applications, meaning a quad-processor rig will get about 5x as many points as you'd get with those four processors each crunching independently.

But yeah, Xeons in a single-processor 2011 board are pretty silly, unless you have $10k to blow and for some reason can't just get another computer.

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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,038,739)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,074,615)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,028,743)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,142,353)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,285,482)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,232,103)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,934,612)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,053,250)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,152,318)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,025,737)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,811)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,770,672)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (944,431)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,813,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (339,850,817)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,446,797)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (33,140,471)WW Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,884,000)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (49,144,415)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,457,430)
Message 72229 - Posted: 13 Jan 2014 | 12:41:29 UTC - in response to Message 72203.

As for Xeon, which I don't plan on buying anyways, are they much better at the numbers game than say a top of the line i7? I know they are marketed for servers but that's about all..


A low-end current-generation Xeon will do about the same as a high-end (2011-pin 4th-gen) i7, but a high-end Xeon will blow it out of the water. That said, high-end Xeons cost ~$8000, so they're completely irrelevant to distributed computing on BOINC. They're pretty useful for multi-processor rigs for Folding@Home though, as F@H gives you exponentially more points the quicker you return a WU, and uses multi-threaded applications, meaning a quad-processor rig will get about 5x as many points as you'd get with those four processors each crunching independently.

But yeah, Xeons in a single-processor 2011 board are pretty silly, unless you have $10k to blow and for some reason can't just get another computer.


In the US you can get used hardware here, including Intel Xeon cpu's:
http://www.pacificgeek.com/showcategory.asp?c=201&s=1085

How current they are is another story. I fix friends pc's and buy all my restore cd's etc, from them and have never been disappointed, but as always buyer beware with used hardware.

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Message 72230 - Posted: 13 Jan 2014 | 13:16:34 UTC - in response to Message 72229.


In the US you can get used hardware here, including Intel Xeon cpu's:
http://www.pacificgeek.com/showcategory.asp?c=201&s=1085


Their "retail price" listings are literally double to triple the actual retail prices of every CPU I checked, and their used prices are more expensive than they are new.

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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,038,739)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,074,615)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,028,743)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,142,353)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,285,482)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,232,103)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,934,612)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,053,250)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,152,318)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,025,737)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,811)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,770,672)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (944,431)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,813,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (339,850,817)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,446,797)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (33,140,471)WW Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,884,000)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (49,144,415)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,457,430)
Message 72247 - Posted: 13 Jan 2014 | 23:55:07 UTC - in response to Message 72230.


In the US you can get used hardware here, including Intel Xeon cpu's:
http://www.pacificgeek.com/showcategory.asp?c=201&s=1085


Their "retail price" listings are literally double to triple the actual retail prices of every CPU I checked, and their used prices are more expensive than they are new.


Thanks, that's good to know.

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