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Message boards : Number crunching : Big Cache or Bigger Cache?

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Profile dannyridel
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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (78,095)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,962)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,309)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,373)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (177,303)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (65,677)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (66,029)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,645)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,711)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,784)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,031)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,814)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,033)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (714,652)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,860)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,814)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (373,034)
Message 141878 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 3:48:49 UTC
Last modified: 21 Jul 2020 | 3:50:34 UTC

Recently lots of 5th gen Intel Core (Broadwell) processors are streaming into the Chinese market. Guess what? They're cheaper than any i7 after i7-865K!!
For just 400 yuan, ($50) I can get i7-5775C(5675C is at the same price, not worth it)--4C/8T, overclockable, 128+6MB of cache, and 14nm!! Comparing it to the i3-10100, it's ~250 yuan cheaper AND is overclockable. The perf after overclocking should be around equal to 10100, but since 5775C has large cache, the slow DDR3 memory generally does not matter, right? Also I can get a much better GPU than if I go for the R7 3700X+GTX1660S, which was my original plan.
My question is: Should I go for 5775C+H97+RTX2070S or 3700X/3600XT+B550+GTX1660S? Please take into consideration that price is around equal for both, and I'm only using the PC for very low demand games like Asphalt 8 and diep.io.
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Message 141879 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 4:42:52 UTC - in response to Message 141878.
Last modified: 21 Jul 2020 | 4:45:46 UTC

I did a google search on that Intel chip and it says 6Gb of L3 cache and 4 cores - is the Chinese variant different?
The 3700X has 8 cores and the 3600XT 6 cores - I assume all on one CCX (it would be annoying if there are 2 CCXs) - and 32 Mb L3 cache.
Unless I have misunderstood the specs - definitely go the 3700X AMD option - says he who has no AMD computers.

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Message 141880 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 4:49:00 UTC - in response to Message 141879.

I did a google search on that Intel chip and it says 6Gb of L3 cache and 4 cores - is the Chinese variant different?
The AMD has 8 cores (?) - I assume all on one CCX (it would be annoying if there are 2 CCXs) - and 32 Mb L3 cache.
Unless I have misunderstood the specs - definitely go the 3700X AMD option - says he who has no AMD computers.


You sure?
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/88040/intel-core-i7-5775c-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-70-ghz.html

128MB of Lv4 cache.
I think R7 3700X is 2 CCX.
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Message 141881 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 4:57:18 UTC - in response to Message 141880.
Last modified: 21 Jul 2020 | 4:58:36 UTC


You sure?
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/88040/intel-core-i7-5775c-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-70-ghz.html

128MB of Lv4 cache.
I think R7 3700X is 2 CCX.

I am not sure what Lv4 cache is - I only know to look at L3 cache.
And L2 + L3 cache for Intel X computers

I did a quick google - assuming Lv4 cache is as fast as L3 cache - go the AMD, even if it is in 2 CCXs.
It is an interesting conundrum. Assuming the 3700X is essentially 2 x 4 core CPUs each with 16Gb L3 cache, the cache wouldn't be big enough to run most CUL,WOO and not big enough for PSP or SOB to run entirely in L3 cache

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Discovered 3 mega primesFound 5 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,373,391)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,628,251)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,142,420)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,015,573)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,086,015)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,337,767)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,827,751)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,757)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,125,640)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,307,419)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,371,625)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,380,527)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (744,531)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,007,004)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (563,813,452)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,181)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,845,708)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (415,208,199)
Message 141882 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 5:02:42 UTC

I probably shouldn't be answering as I have no direct experience with AMD.
It would be interesting to compare running 1 SOB task on 8 cores versus 2 SOB tasks each on 4 cores. Each has different limitations. (Again assuming 2 x CCXs)

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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (78,095)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,962)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,309)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,373)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (177,303)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (65,677)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (66,029)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,645)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,711)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,784)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,031)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,814)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,033)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (714,652)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,860)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,814)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (373,034)
Message 141883 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 5:13:56 UTC - in response to Message 141882.

I probably shouldn't be answering as I have no direct experience with AMD.
It would be interesting to compare running 1 SOB task on 8 cores versus 2 SOB tasks each on 4 cores. Each has different limitations. (Again assuming 2 x CCXs)


Sir, AMD has PCIe 4, but Intel allows me to get RTX2070S.
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Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1


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Credit: 1,195,431,212
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Discovered 3 mega primesFound 5 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,373,391)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,628,251)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,142,420)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,015,573)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,086,015)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,337,767)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,827,751)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,757)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,125,640)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,307,419)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,371,625)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,380,527)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (744,531)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,007,004)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (563,813,452)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,181)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,845,708)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (415,208,199)
Message 141885 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 5:38:57 UTC - in response to Message 141883.


Sir, AMD has PCIe 4, but Intel allows me to get RTX2070S.

My bad, I was entirely focused on the CPU.
Flip a coin?

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Discovered 3 mega primesFound 5 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,373,391)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,628,251)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,142,420)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,015,573)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,086,015)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,337,767)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,827,751)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,757)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,125,640)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,307,419)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,371,625)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,380,527)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (744,531)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,007,004)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (563,813,452)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,181)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,845,708)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (415,208,199)
Message 141886 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 5:41:59 UTC
Last modified: 21 Jul 2020 | 5:42:58 UTC

I'm getting that you really want the 2070S.
Go for it!

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Message 141888 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 7:38:41 UTC - in response to Message 141886.

You can run the 3700x on a b450 or even an x470 and save a big chunk of cash over a b550 with no performance difference. No idea how the intel performs but you can check my tasks since last weekend to see how the 3700x is doing using an x470 board (earlier than that I was changing things around still so might not be totally represetative).

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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (78,095)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,962)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,309)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,373)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (177,303)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (65,677)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (66,029)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,645)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,711)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,784)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,031)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,814)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,033)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (714,652)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,860)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,814)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (373,034)
Message 141890 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 9:11:57 UTC - in response to Message 141888.
Last modified: 21 Jul 2020 | 9:28:45 UTC

You can run the 3700x on a b450 or even an x470 and save a big chunk of cash over a b550 with no performance difference. No idea how the intel performs but you can check my tasks since last weekend to see how the 3700x is doing using an x470 board (earlier than that I was changing things around still so might not be totally represetative).


Hmm so PCIe 4 isn't worth it? The TUF B550M GAMING S and B550M Arous Elite are only 600 yuan (<$100) in China as a part of a sale from Gigabyte. Then ASUS saw the situation and lowered the TUF's price too.

Actually, it's the TUF B450M GAMING S at 549 yuan ($80) and B550M Aorus Elite at 599 yuan ($85).
My favorite computer newsletter said this in a choice between the two:
"You either go for a better power supply for a slightly worse I/O&connectivity, or better I/O&connectivity for a slightly worse power supply."
Which is more important? PCIe 4? One more power supply phase?
____________
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SHSIDElectronicsGroup@outlook.com

GFN-14: 50103906^16384+1
Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1


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Message 141892 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 9:24:22 UTC - in response to Message 141890.

I think only a few of the faster NVMe drives are fast enough to use PCIe4. Certainly no GPUs either this generation or next are fast enough to take advantage of it.

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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (78,095)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,962)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,309)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,373)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (177,303)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (65,677)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (66,029)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,645)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,711)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,784)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,031)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,814)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,033)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (714,652)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,860)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,814)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (373,034)
Message 141893 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 9:30:49 UTC - in response to Message 141892.
Last modified: 21 Jul 2020 | 9:31:33 UTC

I think only a few of the faster NVMe drives are fast enough to use PCIe4. Certainly no GPUs either this generation or next are fast enough to take advantage of it.


RX5700XT?
It rivals RTX2070S.
I went for 2070S since 5775C is PCIe3.

Well Team Group and Crucial and several other have PCIe4 SSDs at cheap prices.

Also pls check the revision of previous post--got chipset wrong.
____________
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GFN-14: 50103906^16384+1
Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1


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Message 141894 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 9:50:22 UTC - in response to Message 141893.
Last modified: 21 Jul 2020 | 9:51:51 UTC

For primegrid you'll be running 24/7 @ max boost so the boards power delivery is more important than PCIe4.
Even if your drives can use PCIe4 it's doubtful you'd notice the difference unless you're running something like a database to make use of the bandwidth.
The RX5700XT might say it's PCIe4 compatible for marketing reasons but it won't be making use of it.

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Message 141896 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 11:20:26 UTC - in response to Message 141883.

AMD has PCIe 4, but Intel allows me to get RTX2070S.


The 2070S gives you better gpu performance for the future I would go with that setup and accept any cpu deficiencies. I did the opposite in a laptop as I won't be using the gpu very often to crunch with, it has a Ryzien 4500H and an AMD 1660 gpu.

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Message 141897 - Posted: 21 Jul 2020 | 12:41:11 UTC - in response to Message 141896.
Last modified: 21 Jul 2020 | 12:54:59 UTC

AMD has PCIe 4, but Intel allows me to get RTX2070S.


The 2070S gives you better gpu performance for the future I would go with that setup and accept any cpu deficiencies. I did the opposite in a laptop as I won't be using the gpu very often to crunch with, it has a Ryzien 4500H and an AMD 1660 gpu.


I agree with you quite a lot! The problem is, i7-5775C will not be upgradeable, if you don;t count E3 and E5 in. R7 3700X will be compatible with even Zen3. Another potential problem is the stability of used hardware. The reason why 5775C dropped so much in price is processors coming from the US. Previously it cost around $300. It has dropped 7 times in price.
I'll try to make a list of pros and cons.
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Message 141911 - Posted: 22 Jul 2020 | 6:42:30 UTC
Last modified: 22 Jul 2020 | 7:00:05 UTC

i7-5775C:

    PRO
      1.cheap
      2.RTX2070S (not really, these will receive a price raise soon, Nvidia stopped 2080Ti production already)
      3.huge cache, bigger than anything consumer (not HEDT)
      4.14nm&overclockable


    CON

      1.unsure of processor conditions, outdated architecture, few cores
      2.unstable motherboard, outdated features, bad MB cooling+power delivery
      3.un-upgradable
      4.slow RAM (not much of an issue)



R7 3700X:

    PRO
      1.8C16T, 7nm Zen2, overclockable
      2.new motherboard with better power delivery
      3.fast RAM(makes up for small cache, but I'd have to OC the RAM)
      4.upgradable to 3900X/3950X/Zen3


    CON

      1.GTX1660S
      2.small cache, not enough for some PG tasks
      3.lower frequency, considering XT processors
      4.expensive? (considering I don't save my scholarship while my friend did for 2 years and he bought a 3900x)




That being said, I think I'll make my decision to keep my original 3700X+GTX1660S plan, will only consider i7-5775C as a backup in case my school decides to give less money during COVID. :( Another thing that ushered me into this decision is the matter that I want to work on LLR more than GPU projects. :)
Anyways, thanks for your suggestions!
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Message 141912 - Posted: 22 Jul 2020 | 7:26:41 UTC - in response to Message 141911.

A few things, if you expect any major gains from overclocking the 3700x then you're going to be disappointed - at best you might get 200MHz over what it will do by itself.

I found this post which might help you. Looks like the 5775 is around the same as the 4790K, my previous processor, which had less than half the throughput of the 3700x.
Looks like you'll need to decide if you prefer running more CPU or GPU tasks or perhaps with the b450/x470+3700x you could look at a 2060 which will only be around 15% slower than a 2070s.

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Message 141933 - Posted: 23 Jul 2020 | 9:00:42 UTC

Only just saw this thread. I own both 5675C and 5775C. Before the era of multi-threading in LLR, the big cache did wonders for performance. I haven't used it so much with mt but it probably still helps.

The L4 cache is rated at 50GB/s bandwidth (comparable to dual channel 3200 ram), and probably has lower latency than system ram too. For tasks that fit inside the cache you can consider the system ram unlimited. When I was short on DDR3 I even ran those systems with a single stick of 4GB.

While that largely solves the ram side of the performance equation, that swings things back at the core side. Broadwell I measured at 6% slower than Haswell, or around 20% down compared to Skylake of the same configuration. You only have 4 cores, and they're not very overclockable. Don't expect much beyond 4 GHz on air.

The 3700X is best seen as two quad cores each with 16MB of cache, so the biggest tasks might not fit. Crossing that barrier will hit performance. Assuming tasks fitting inside their respective caches, 3700X would likely do more than double the CPU work of the Broadwell CPUs, at better power efficiency too. I don't know how to balance the value if you consider the GPU also, that depends on what you want to run with it.

I'd consider the 3700X as non-overclockable in this use case. Even for stock operation, you will want a better cooler than bundled with it as it runs hot and loud.

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Message 141938 - Posted: 23 Jul 2020 | 10:29:59 UTC - in response to Message 141933.

Only just saw this thread. I own both 5675C and 5775C. Before the era of multi-threading in LLR, the big cache did wonders for performance. I haven't used it so much with mt but it probably still helps.

The L4 cache is rated at 50GB/s bandwidth (comparable to dual channel 3200 ram), and probably has lower latency than system ram too. For tasks that fit inside the cache you can consider the system ram unlimited. When I was short on DDR3 I even ran those systems with a single stick of 4GB.

While that largely solves the ram side of the performance equation, that swings things back at the core side. Broadwell I measured at 6% slower than Haswell, or around 20% down compared to Skylake of the same configuration. You only have 4 cores, and they're not very overclockable. Don't expect much beyond 4 GHz on air.

The 3700X is best seen as two quad cores each with 16MB of cache, so the biggest tasks might not fit. Crossing that barrier will hit performance. Assuming tasks fitting inside their respective caches, 3700X would likely do more than double the CPU work of the Broadwell CPUs, at better power efficiency too. I don't know how to balance the value if you consider the GPU also, that depends on what you want to run with it.

I'd consider the 3700X as non-overclockable in this use case. Even for stock operation, you will want a better cooler than bundled with it as it runs hot and loud.


I want to make something clear:
An SR5 task that I recently returned had an FFT of 768K. How much cache does it use?
is it 8*FFT in k*1024?
Or 24*FFT*1024?

3700X has unified L2 cache, so theoretically each CCX (4C) has access to 32/2+4=20MB of cache.
Also, 4.4GHz under all-core full AVX2 load isn't that bad at all, even 4.1G is okay.
BTW, does overclocking mean your processor will always run at that frequency or above? Like I set multiplier to 39 in MB BIOS settings and will it run always above 3.9G? Or is the multiplier the maximum frequency?
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Message 141939 - Posted: 23 Jul 2020 | 10:40:56 UTC - in response to Message 141938.
Last modified: 23 Jul 2020 | 10:43:39 UTC

everything up to 1920K fits into the 3700x cache. 1920K is odd as sometimes it's better on 4 cores and other times would be better with 8.
My 768K SR5 tasks run two at a time in around 5100-5300 seconds which is somewhat faster than the one you ran.
All core boost is currently 3.9GHz.
One strange thing I've noticed is that if I let windows assign the tasks my all-core goes up to around 4.1GHz. When I lock the affinity for each task to a ccx it then drops down to 3.9GHz but obviously runs much faster.

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Message 141940 - Posted: 23 Jul 2020 | 11:45:05 UTC - in response to Message 141938.

I want to make something clear:
An SR5 task that I recently returned had an FFT of 768K. How much cache does it use?
is it 8*FFT in k*1024?
Or 24*FFT*1024?

8*FFT in k, so 8*768k=6144KiB=6MiB.

We're all bad at writing kB=KiB, MB=MiB, but the latter should be assumed in this use case.

For the impending TRP challenge, if you see 1M FFT size, that's 1024k.


3700X has unified L2 cache, so theoretically each CCX (4C) has access to 32/2+4=20MB of cache.

I think they call it exclusive cache, so data in L2 and L3 is not duplicated. Each core has 0.5M of L2, so it's 18MB total cache per CCX. Given the difference between 16 and 18 is small, I don't find it worth worrying over. Even if you're on the edge it is a somewhat smooth transition and not a cliff edge.


BTW, does overclocking mean your processor will always run at that frequency or above? Like I set multiplier to 39 in MB BIOS settings and will it run always above 3.9G? Or is the multiplier the maximum frequency?

Fixed clock will be a maximum, but I'm not sure if if it will still downclock due to high temperatures for example. For normal use, power limit overclocking is safer and gets you more performance in lighter loads. If it is dedicated to LLR work, fixed voltage/clock could work and I'd be interested where those values end up, and at what power. The problem being that LLR remains one of the worst case loads, and if you tune fixed settings for that, you lose performance in every lighter load.


One strange thing I've noticed is that if I let windows assign the tasks my all-core goes up to around 4.1GHz. When I lock the affinity for each task to a ccx it then drops down to 3.9GHz but obviously runs much faster.

Currently running 2 tasks of 4 cores on TRP as a test. My 3700X at stock settings is running around 3.9 GHz per core. Letting Windows doing the management.

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Message 141944 - Posted: 23 Jul 2020 | 13:45:37 UTC - in response to Message 141940.

8*FFT in k, so 8*768k=6144KiB=6MiB.

We're all bad at writing kB=KiB, MB=MiB, but the latter should be assumed in this use case.

For the impending TRP challenge, if you see 1M FFT size, that's 1024k.

Lemme get this clear:
SO 1MB= 1.024MiB?
And what uses what: OS use MiB? SSD&HDD producers use MB?
Finally, which one is "correct" in academic terms?
___
Yes as you can see I have a TRP task in progress that has 1M FFT.

I think they call it exclusive cache, so data in L2 and L3 is not duplicated. Each core has 0.5M of L2, so it's 18MB total cache per CCX. Given the difference between 16 and 18 is small, I don't find it worth worrying over. Even if you're on the edge it is a somewhat smooth transition and not a cliff edge.

So for example 18.5MB of cache usage from a certain FFT (arbitary number) will not slow things down much? The rest 512KiB of data has nowhere to stay except for RAM, I think.

Fixed clock will be a maximum, but I'm not sure if if it will still downclock due to high temperatures for example. For normal use, power limit overclocking is safer and gets you more performance in lighter loads. If it is dedicated to LLR work, fixed voltage/clock could work and I'd be interested where those values end up, and at what power. The problem being that LLR remains one of the worst case loads, and if you tune fixed settings for that, you lose performance in every lighter load.

SO even a four-core LLR load is lighter? Or light gaming counts as lighter. For example diep.io or Asphalt 8.

Letting Windows doing the management.

Are there CCDs and CCXs in Zen and Zen+ processors?
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Message 141945 - Posted: 23 Jul 2020 | 15:28:25 UTC - in response to Message 141940.


One strange thing I've noticed is that if I let windows assign the tasks my all-core goes up to around 4.1GHz. When I lock the affinity for each task to a ccx it then drops down to 3.9GHz but obviously runs much faster.

Currently running 2 tasks of 4 cores on TRP as a test. My 3700X at stock settings is running around 3.9 GHz per core. Letting Windows doing the management.

you need to use process lassoo or similar as it's significantly faster. I haven't run TRP but an 800K SR5 on mine took 5500s vs 8500 for your test.

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Message 141978 - Posted: 24 Jul 2020 | 14:15:36 UTC - in response to Message 141944.

Lemme get this clear:
SO 1MB= 1.024MiB?
And what uses what: OS use MiB? SSD&HDD producers use MB?
Finally, which one is "correct" in academic terms?

1MiB=1.024MB
When referring to ram or disk storage, Windows uses MiB values but displays MB units. Prime95 does same.

Hard disk manufacturers use M=1000000 correctly, but they still got sued for it and lost because people believe Windows more. I think SSDs follow HDs.

The MiB notation was created to get rid of this confusion. Hardly anyone uses it.


So for example 18.5MB of cache usage from a certain FFT (arbitary number) will not slow things down much? The rest 512KiB of data has nowhere to stay except for RAM, I think.

Prediction of performance isn't exact. If your data is well within cache limits, you get great performance. If your data is well above cache limits, you get ram limited performance. Between the two, there is a transition zone. You can see some performance impact as you approach close to but not exceed the cache size. It drops as you exceed it, but it doesn't immediately go ram limited.

Are there CCDs and CCXs in Zen and Zen+ processors?

CCXs are groups of up to 4 cores in Zen, Zen+, Zen 2. Zen 3 is rumoured to go up to 8 cores in a CCX. The term CCD started with Zen 2 to refer to a die with the cores, separate from the IOD which has the IO and memory controller.




you need to use process lassoo or similar as it's significantly faster. I haven't run TRP but an 800K SR5 on mine took 5500s vs 8500 for your test.

FFT size alone is not enough to compare different types of unit. I'll run "as is" at the start of the challenge and we can compare results later on, assuming you're running the challenge.

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Message 141980 - Posted: 24 Jul 2020 | 15:13:56 UTC - in response to Message 141978.


Hard disk manufacturers use M=1000000 correctly

you must be young.

M for computers always used to refer to 1024*1024 until hard disk manufacturers started taking the proverbial.

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Message 141981 - Posted: 24 Jul 2020 | 15:41:23 UTC - in response to Message 141980.


Hard disk manufacturers use M=1000000 correctly

you must be young.

M for computers always used to refer to 1024*1024 until hard disk manufacturers started taking the proverbial.

Oh, to be called young!

One of the minor annoyances about the computer community is a misuse of terms outside of their original meaning in other areas, of which this is one example.

M only means 10^6. It was a convenience to use it for 2^20 where it makes sense to do so, and everyone understands it to be used that way. So for computer ram, that makes sense, since they are "power of 2" capacities. HDs are more arbitrary in size and do not have that power of 2 factor baked into it, beyond the use of 512/4096 byte sector sizes... ok, that complicates it a bit there. IMO they were technically correct to use M in the 10^6 sense at the time they got sued for it. Maybe much earlier than that, were HDs more tied to powers to 2? The first PC I used had a 40MB Fujitsu HD in it. I do not recall if that was 40 * 10^6 bytes or 40 * 2^20 bytes.

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Message 141982 - Posted: 24 Jul 2020 | 15:59:38 UTC - in response to Message 141981.


Hard disk manufacturers use M=1000000 correctly

you must be young.

M for computers always used to refer to 1024*1024 until hard disk manufacturers started taking the proverbial.

Oh, to be called young!

Sry for being off-topic, but I'm younger than both of you so much that I'm caught between this argument of what is correct and what is wrong in terms of SI units.

Well Since P, T, and G are all powers of 10, I suppose M should be too. Dunno about the 2^n stuff b4 I got my first computer. Perhaps J. Sheridan is correct, 2^N for computers?
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Message 141983 - Posted: 24 Jul 2020 | 16:15:19 UTC - in response to Message 141982.

Sry for being off-topic, but I'm younger than both of you so much that I'm caught between this argument of what is correct and what is wrong in terms of SI units.

Well Since P, T, and G are all powers of 10, I suppose M should be too. Dunno about the 2^n stuff b4 I got my first computer. Perhaps J. Sheridan is correct, 2^N for computers?

Actually since this is your topic on CPU choice originally, we should be apologising to you for going astray.

I think how we got to today doesn't really matter, as we're all kinda used to the quirks with sufficient exposure to them. Windows does what it does, and complaining about it isn't likely to change anything.

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Message 141984 - Posted: 24 Jul 2020 | 16:28:57 UTC - in response to Message 141981.
Last modified: 24 Jul 2020 | 16:30:54 UTC

The first PC I used had a 40MB Fujitsu HD in it. I do not recall if that was 40 * 10^6 bytes or 40 * 2^20 bytes.

My first pc had a tape :-)

Maybe they were always "at it" but it didn't really make a lot of difference until we got to G.


I've kicked off a TRP for a test run. It's 868K. Looks like it's going to take around 10500 seconds which is slower than both of yours.
Not sure what's going on there. Boost clock is running around 3900MHz.
I tried switching off the affinity setting and let it progress a few % and it did that slower than with the affinity on so that's not the problem.
Any ideas?

edit: sorry, I'm an idiot. I was looking at the wrong file. It's 1120K. Panic over :-)

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Message 142003 - Posted: 25 Jul 2020 | 2:03:47 UTC - in response to Message 141984.

The first PC I used had a 40MB Fujitsu HD in it. I do not recall if that was 40 * 10^6 bytes or 40 * 2^20 bytes.

My first pc had a tape :-)

Maybe they were always "at it" but it didn't really make a lot of difference until we got to G.


I've kicked off a TRP for a test run. It's 868K. Looks like it's going to take around 10500 seconds which is slower than both of yours.
Not sure what's going on there. Boost clock is running around 3900MHz.
I tried switching off the affinity setting and let it progress a few % and it did that slower than with the affinity on so that's not the problem.
Any ideas?

edit: sorry, I'm an idiot. I was looking at the wrong file. It's 1120K. Panic over :-)


I got a 1024K. So the longer the FFT, the longer the runtime?

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Message 142007 - Posted: 25 Jul 2020 | 8:39:16 UTC - in response to Message 142003.
Last modified: 25 Jul 2020 | 8:39:35 UTC

That's right.

So far I'm seeing these runtimes:
960K ~ 9200 seconds
1024K ~ 9800 seconds
1120K ~ 11000 seconds

vs Mackerel
960K ~ 9800 seconds.
1024K ~ 10800 seconds

So you can see the effect of not fixing the affinity to a single CCX. This gets even worse on the 3900/3950x as they have 2 CCDs to cope with as well and communication between those is slower again.

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Message 142008 - Posted: 25 Jul 2020 | 9:04:18 UTC - in response to Message 142007.

So you can see the effect of not fixing the affinity to a single CCX. This gets even worse on the 3900/3950x as they have 2 CCDs to cope with as well and communication between those is slower again.

Thanks. I was just about to do that, but you got there first. I guess I'll have to look into configuring this as my next task, so with a bit of luck future results will be a bit better.

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Message 142009 - Posted: 25 Jul 2020 | 9:30:52 UTC - in response to Message 141945.

you need to use process lassoo or similar as it's significantly faster.

I'm having a fail moment here. Any tips on how to configure this? I can manually set each current instances of LLR to threads 0-7, 8-15, but I don't know if that carries over to new tasks. Is there some better way to do it?

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RAC: 2,099,192
321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,019,701)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,582,271)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,610,098)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,975,172)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,639,452)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,500,951)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,583,226)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,473,911)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,169,619)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,717,538)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,084,622)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,388)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (265,102,350)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (514,289,554)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,801,812)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (53,767,857)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (186,978,187)
Message 142010 - Posted: 25 Jul 2020 | 9:50:05 UTC - in response to Message 142009.
Last modified: 25 Jul 2020 | 9:51:39 UTC

Yes, use process lasso or I can give you a small app I've written to do the same - needs some work still but does the trick if you're not constantly changing task types.

In process lasso you go to cpu->balancer and tell it to assign equal CPUs to primegrid_cllr.exe

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Joined: 2 Oct 08
Posts: 2420
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Credit: 418,021,017
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Discovered 2 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,774,878)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,149,818)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,454,573)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,122,074)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (77,015,920)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,223,714)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,319,914)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,996,561)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,342,780)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,602,519)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,715,464)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,918,894)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (71,887,807)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 142011 - Posted: 25 Jul 2020 | 10:43:33 UTC - in response to Message 142010.

In process lasso you go to cpu->balancer and tell it to assign equal CPUs to primegrid_cllr.exe

Thanks. Having the tool is one thing, knowing how to use it is where the value is added. Current units are early in, so the first units to fully run with that setting will start in 2-3 hours or so. Let's see if my timings start to more closely resemble yours.

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Joined: 21 Mar 11
Posts: 659
ID: 91622
Credit: 1,109,288,242
RAC: 2,099,192
321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,019,701)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,582,271)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,610,098)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,975,172)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,639,452)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,500,951)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,583,226)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,473,911)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,169,619)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,717,538)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,084,622)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,388)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (265,102,350)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (514,289,554)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,801,812)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (53,767,857)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (186,978,187)
Message 142017 - Posted: 25 Jul 2020 | 18:31:11 UTC - in response to Message 142011.

Looks like you've had a nice speed-up.

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Posts: 739
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Credit: 2,595,126
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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (78,095)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,962)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,309)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,373)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (177,303)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (65,677)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (66,029)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,645)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,711)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,784)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,031)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,814)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,033)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (714,652)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,860)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,814)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (373,034)
Message 142819 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020 | 9:37:02 UTC - in response to Message 141878.
Last modified: 30 Aug 2020 | 10:22:14 UTC

Recently lots of 5th gen Intel Core (Broadwell) processors are streaming into the Chinese market. Guess what? They're cheaper than any i7 after i7-865K!!
For just 400 yuan, ($50) I can get i7-5775C(5675C is at the same price, not worth it)--4C/8T, overclockable, 128+6MB of cache, and 14nm!! Comparing it to the i3-10100, it's ~250 yuan cheaper AND is overclockable. The perf after overclocking should be around equal to 10100, but since 5775C has large cache, the slow DDR3 memory generally does not matter, right? Also I can get a much better GPU than if I go for the R7 3700X+GTX1660S, which was my original plan.
My question is: Should I go for 5775C+H97+RTX2070S or 3700X/3600XT+B550+GTX1660S? Please take into consideration that price is around equal for both, and I'm only using the PC for very low demand games like Asphalt 8 and diep.io.



I'm back again! And this time I'm bringing a problem with the GPU:

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5300
VS
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/gtx-1650/(GDDR6 version)

So far I'm quite sure the RX5300 is around $20-50 cheaper than GTX1650, but is it worse the sacrifice for a low-end card? Since I'm this super-crazy AMD fan, I'd be willing to make some compute power sacrifices.
____________
SHSID Electronics Group
SHSIDElectronicsGroup@outlook.com

GFN-14: 50103906^16384+1
Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1


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Joined: 11 Jul 11
Posts: 840
ID: 105020
Credit: 1,195,431,212
RAC: 1,663,854
Discovered 3 mega primesFound 5 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,373,391)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,628,251)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,142,420)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,015,573)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,086,015)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,337,767)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,827,751)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,757)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,125,640)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,307,419)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,371,625)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,380,527)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (744,531)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,007,004)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (563,813,452)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,181)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,845,708)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (415,208,199)
Message 142821 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020 | 10:22:13 UTC - in response to Message 142819.


I'm back again! And this time I'm bringing a problem with the GPU:

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5300
VS
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/gtx-1650/(GDDR6 version)

So far I'm quite sure the RX5300 is around $20-50 cheaper than GTX1650, but is it worse the sacrifice for a low-end card?

Get the nvidia card

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Joined: 3 Feb 19
Posts: 739
ID: 1097922
Credit: 2,595,126
RAC: 4,929
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (78,095)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,962)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,309)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,373)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (177,303)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (65,677)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (66,029)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,645)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,711)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,784)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,031)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,814)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,033)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (714,652)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,860)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,814)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (373,034)
Message 142822 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020 | 10:22:32 UTC - in response to Message 142821.


I'm back again! And this time I'm bringing a problem with the GPU:

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5300
VS
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/gtx-1650/(GDDR6 version)

So far I'm quite sure the RX5300 is around $20-50 cheaper than GTX1650, but is it worse the sacrifice for a low-end card?

Get the nvidia card


Nick, read the edit!
____________
SHSID Electronics Group
SHSIDElectronicsGroup@outlook.com

GFN-14: 50103906^16384+1
Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1


Profile NickProject donor
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Joined: 11 Jul 11
Posts: 840
ID: 105020
Credit: 1,195,431,212
RAC: 1,663,854
Discovered 3 mega primesFound 5 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,373,391)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,628,251)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,142,420)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,015,573)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,086,015)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,337,767)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,827,751)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,757)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,125,640)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,307,419)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,371,625)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,380,527)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (744,531)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,007,004)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (563,813,452)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,181)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,845,708)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (415,208,199)
Message 142824 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020 | 10:24:52 UTC - in response to Message 142822.

Nick, read the edit!

Sorry I don't understand

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Joined: 3 Feb 19
Posts: 739
ID: 1097922
Credit: 2,595,126
RAC: 4,929
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (78,095)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,962)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,309)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,373)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (177,303)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (65,677)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (66,029)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,645)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,711)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,784)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,031)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,814)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,033)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (714,652)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,860)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,814)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (373,034)
Message 142826 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020 | 11:46:04 UTC - in response to Message 142824.

Nick, read the edit!

Sorry I don't understand


"So far I'm quite sure the RX5300 is around $20-50 cheaper than GTX1650, but is it worse the sacrifice for a low-end card? Since I'm this super-crazy AMD fan, I'd be willing to make some compute power sacrifices."



So still GTX1650? K.
____________
SHSID Electronics Group
SHSIDElectronicsGroup@outlook.com

GFN-14: 50103906^16384+1
Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1


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Joined: 17 Mar 09
Posts: 1191
ID: 37043
Credit: 505,321,526
RAC: 126,091
Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,038,739)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,074,615)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,013,823)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,142,353)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,149,318)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,049,284)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,043,824)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,053,250)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,095,282)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,025,737)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,893,227)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,770,672)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (944,431)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,813,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (339,648,557)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,446,797)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (33,140,471)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,527,621)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,457,430)
Message 142827 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020 | 11:48:49 UTC - in response to Message 142819.

Recently lots of 5th gen Intel Core (Broadwell) processors are streaming into the Chinese market. Guess what? They're cheaper than any i7 after i7-865K!!
For just 400 yuan, ($50) I can get i7-5775C(5675C is at the same price, not worth it)--4C/8T, overclockable, 128+6MB of cache, and 14nm!! Comparing it to the i3-10100, it's ~250 yuan cheaper AND is overclockable. The perf after overclocking should be around equal to 10100, but since 5775C has large cache, the slow DDR3 memory generally does not matter, right? Also I can get a much better GPU than if I go for the R7 3700X+GTX1660S, which was my original plan.
My question is: Should I go for 5775C+H97+RTX2070S or 3700X/3600XT+B550+GTX1660S? Please take into consideration that price is around equal for both, and I'm only using the PC for very low demand games like Asphalt 8 and diep.io.



I'm back again! And this time I'm bringing a problem with the GPU:

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5300
VS
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/gtx-1650/(GDDR6 version)

So far I'm quite sure the RX5300 is around $20-50 cheaper than GTX1650, but is it worse the sacrifice for a low-end card? Since I'm this super-crazy AMD fan, I'd be willing to make some compute power sacrifices.


The 5300 has 3gb of onboard memory while the 1650 has 4gb I would go with the 4gb as some other projects need it for their workunits, who knows what PrimeGrid may do in the future, they may not even know yet, but less is not always better. It's not something you can add too later on either.

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Joined: 3 Feb 19
Posts: 739
ID: 1097922
Credit: 2,595,126
RAC: 4,929
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (78,095)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,962)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,309)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,373)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (177,303)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (65,677)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (66,029)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,645)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,711)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,784)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,031)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,814)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,033)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (714,652)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,860)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,814)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (373,034)
Message 142828 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020 | 11:54:47 UTC - in response to Message 142827.

Recently lots of 5th gen Intel Core (Broadwell) processors are streaming into the Chinese market. Guess what? They're cheaper than any i7 after i7-865K!!
For just 400 yuan, ($50) I can get i7-5775C(5675C is at the same price, not worth it)--4C/8T, overclockable, 128+6MB of cache, and 14nm!! Comparing it to the i3-10100, it's ~250 yuan cheaper AND is overclockable. The perf after overclocking should be around equal to 10100, but since 5775C has large cache, the slow DDR3 memory generally does not matter, right? Also I can get a much better GPU than if I go for the R7 3700X+GTX1660S, which was my original plan.
My question is: Should I go for 5775C+H97+RTX2070S or 3700X/3600XT+B550+GTX1660S? Please take into consideration that price is around equal for both, and I'm only using the PC for very low demand games like Asphalt 8 and diep.io.



I'm back again! And this time I'm bringing a problem with the GPU:

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5300
VS
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/gtx-1650/(GDDR6 version)

So far I'm quite sure the RX5300 is around $20-50 cheaper than GTX1650, but is it worse the sacrifice for a low-end card? Since I'm this super-crazy AMD fan, I'd be willing to make some compute power sacrifices.


The 5300 has 3gb of onboard memory while the 1650 has 4gb I would go with the 4gb as some other projects need it for their workunits, who knows what PrimeGrid may do in the future, they may not even know yet, but less is not always better. It's not something you can add too later on either.



Ok yes that is one of the major falloffs.
____________
SHSID Electronics Group
SHSIDElectronicsGroup@outlook.com

GFN-14: 50103906^16384+1
Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1


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Joined: 11 Jul 11
Posts: 840
ID: 105020
Credit: 1,195,431,212
RAC: 1,663,854
Discovered 3 mega primesFound 5 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,373,391)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,628,251)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,142,420)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,015,573)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,086,015)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,337,767)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,827,751)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,757)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,125,640)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,307,419)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,371,625)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,380,527)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (744,531)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,007,004)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (563,813,452)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,181)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,845,708)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (415,208,199)
Message 142833 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020 | 13:17:55 UTC - in response to Message 142826.
Last modified: 30 Aug 2020 | 13:22:21 UTC

Nick, read the edit!

Sorry I don't understand


"So far I'm quite sure the RX5300 is around $20-50 cheaper than GTX1650, but is it worse the sacrifice for a low-end card? Since I'm this super-crazy AMD fan, I'd be willing to make some compute power sacrifices."



So still GTX1650? K.

I'm a banana. I think it was just before I started watching a movie and didn't think to look back through the thread. And the movie was rubbish so I watched Die Hard 5 for the 100th time.
I think you should get the card you want to get.
I haven't researched how each card performs.
A quick look at online comparisons, it broadly says the AMD is just faster than the standard 1660 which may be the one with the slower memory. But also for what applications is it faster?
I don't know how easily you could find times of different projects for each card?

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Credit: 935,068,883
RAC: 369,646
Found 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,042,688)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,101,836)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,303,526)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,202,873)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,100,156)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,513,728)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,851,996)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,199,189)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,100,018)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,405,027)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,124,820)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,003,334)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (268,250)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,502)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (306,761,000)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,133)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,970)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (191,771,619)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (133,333,389)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,000,001)
Message 142834 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020 | 14:28:44 UTC

http://www.primegrid.com/gpu_list.php

Profile dannyridel
Volunteer tester
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Joined: 3 Feb 19
Posts: 739
ID: 1097922
Credit: 2,595,126
RAC: 4,929
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (78,095)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,962)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,309)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,373)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (177,303)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (65,677)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (66,029)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,645)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,711)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,784)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,031)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,814)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,033)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (714,652)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,860)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,814)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (373,034)
Message 142836 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020 | 14:39:36 UTC - in response to Message 142834.

http://www.primegrid.com/gpu_list.php


That page is infamously inaccurate like the top CPUs list.
____________
SHSID Electronics Group
SHSIDElectronicsGroup@outlook.com

GFN-14: 50103906^16384+1
Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1


Profile NickProject donor
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Joined: 11 Jul 11
Posts: 840
ID: 105020
Credit: 1,195,431,212
RAC: 1,663,854
Discovered 3 mega primesFound 5 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,373,391)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,628,251)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,142,420)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,015,573)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,086,015)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,337,767)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,827,751)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,757)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,125,640)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,307,419)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,371,625)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,380,527)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (744,531)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,007,004)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (563,813,452)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,181)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,845,708)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (415,208,199)
Message 142837 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020 | 14:56:51 UTC - in response to Message 142836.
Last modified: 30 Aug 2020 | 15:03:23 UTC

http://www.primegrid.com/gpu_list.php


That page is infamously inaccurate like the top CPUs list.

It can be quite misleading.
For example, right now, the 2080Ti is 13th on the list for PPS sieve.
At full speed that card would be 1st or 2nd on the list.
What is likely happening is that those stats are from computers using most cores for CPU tasks.
But then again, those stats represent what people are actually doing and maybe cards less expensive than the 2080Ti perform better on PPS sieve while doing many CPU tasks? (and quite a few other possibilities)

Profile j.sheridanProject donor
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Joined: 21 Mar 11
Posts: 659
ID: 91622
Credit: 1,109,288,242
RAC: 2,099,192
321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,019,701)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,582,271)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,610,098)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,975,172)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,639,452)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,500,951)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,583,226)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,473,911)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,169,619)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,717,538)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,084,622)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,388)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (265,102,350)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (514,289,554)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,801,812)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (53,767,857)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (186,978,187)
Message 142847 - Posted: 31 Aug 2020 | 9:20:36 UTC - in response to Message 142837.
Last modified: 31 Aug 2020 | 9:22:45 UTC

http://www.primegrid.com/gpu_list.php


That page is infamously inaccurate like the top CPUs list.

It can be quite misleading.
For example, right now, the 2080Ti is 13th on the list for PPS sieve.
At full speed that card would be 1st or 2nd on the list.
What is likely happening is that those stats are from computers using most cores for CPU tasks.
But then again, those stats represent what people are actually doing and maybe cards less expensive than the 2080Ti perform better on PPS sieve while doing many CPU tasks? (and quite a few other possibilities)

running multiple WUs would explain some of that - my 2080 currently looks like it's taking ~220s to process a WU but in fact it's running 2 in that time - but I think even 2 at a time it should still be faster than a 1660 running 1.

The AP27/GFN lists look more realistic.

Profile dannyridel
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Joined: 3 Feb 19
Posts: 739
ID: 1097922
Credit: 2,595,126
RAC: 4,929
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (78,095)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,962)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,309)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,373)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (177,303)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (65,677)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (66,029)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,645)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,711)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,784)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,031)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,814)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,033)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (714,652)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,860)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,814)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (373,034)
Message 142851 - Posted: 31 Aug 2020 | 11:21:21 UTC - in response to Message 142847.


The AP27/GFN lists look more realistic.


Any RTX card can run 2 GFN15's with no problem.
____________
SHSID Electronics Group
SHSIDElectronicsGroup@outlook.com

GFN-14: 50103906^16384+1
Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1


Profile j.sheridanProject donor
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Joined: 21 Mar 11
Posts: 659
ID: 91622
Credit: 1,109,288,242
RAC: 2,099,192
321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,019,701)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,582,271)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,610,098)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,975,172)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,639,452)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,500,951)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,583,226)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,473,911)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,169,619)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,717,538)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,084,622)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,388)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (265,102,350)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (514,289,554)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,801,812)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (53,767,857)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (186,978,187)
Message 142853 - Posted: 31 Aug 2020 | 11:53:28 UTC - in response to Message 142851.


The AP27/GFN lists look more realistic.


Any RTX card can run 2 GFN15's with no problem.

I didn't say they were perfect but as the tasks get longer the lists appear to get more accurate at least for nvidia cards. Not sure what's going on with the AMD cards - the 'all' lists seem to be skipping random ones eg they'll show the 2nd ranked card but not the 1st.

Profile mikey
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Joined: 17 Mar 09
Posts: 1191
ID: 37043
Credit: 505,321,526
RAC: 126,091
Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,038,739)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,074,615)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,013,823)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,142,353)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,149,318)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,049,284)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,043,824)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,053,250)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,095,282)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,025,737)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,893,227)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,770,672)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (944,431)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,813,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (339,648,557)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,446,797)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (33,140,471)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,527,621)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,457,430)
Message 142854 - Posted: 31 Aug 2020 | 14:12:11 UTC - in response to Message 142853.
Last modified: 31 Aug 2020 | 14:13:03 UTC


The AP27/GFN lists look more realistic.


Any RTX card can run 2 GFN15's with no problem.


I didn't say they were perfect but as the tasks get longer the lists appear to get more accurate at least for nvidia cards. Not sure what's going on with the AMD cards - the 'all' lists seem to be skipping random ones eg they'll show the 2nd ranked card but not the 1st.


Some of those could be hidden ones.

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