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Message boards : Cullen/Woodall prime search : core i7 w/ HT - cache misses w/ Cullen?

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[B^S] darkclownProject donor
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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (545,086)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (547,071)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (318,557)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,042,592)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (761,335)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,176,583)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (616,638)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,235)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,608)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (569,672)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (132,135)321 Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (31,434)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,236,416)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (718,547)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,027,562)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (212,111)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (228,486)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,096,000)
Message 66110 - Posted: 29 May 2013 | 17:06:41 UTC

I know this has been discussed in the Number Crunching thread some, but I think I'm seeing it specifically w/ Cullen WUs. Does Cullen suffer from the cache miss issue with Intel Core i7 with HT enabled? WUs on my i5-2400 system are taking much less time than on my i7-3820 w/ HT.

i5 WU: http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=336493532 (112k sec)
i7 WU: http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=336464178 (158k sec)
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (229,492)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,733)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,552,869)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,385)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,117)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (139,802)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,073,792)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (122,712)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (122,944)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,000,599)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (515,556)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,561,511)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (255,612)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,151,359)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,308,361)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,512,440)
Message 66111 - Posted: 29 May 2013 | 17:14:31 UTC - in response to Message 66110.

HT is just enabled or HT is fully used?
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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (545,086)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (547,071)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (318,557)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,042,592)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (761,335)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,176,583)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (616,638)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,235)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,608)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (569,672)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (132,135)321 Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (31,434)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,236,416)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (718,547)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,027,562)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (212,111)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (228,486)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,096,000)
Message 66112 - Posted: 29 May 2013 | 17:32:02 UTC

Fully used. I'm running on all 8 cores.

An aside, how would I configure PG to not use *all* of the HT cores, but partial? Set to 3/4 CPUs (and thus 6/8 cores?)
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Message 66114 - Posted: 29 May 2013 | 17:39:31 UTC - in response to Message 66110.

I know this has been discussed in the Number Crunching thread some, but I think I'm seeing it specifically w/ Cullen WUs. Does Cullen suffer from the cache miss issue with Intel Core i7 with HT enabled? WUs on my i5-2400 system are taking much less time than on my i7-3820 w/ HT.

i5 WU: http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=336493532 (112k sec)
i7 WU: http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=336464178 (158k sec)


Probably, but you should test it yourself. See how long tasks take when you're running 4, and see how long they take when you're running 8. If the 8-way tests take noticeably longer than than double the 4 way tests, then it's likely the cause is increased cache misses.

Regardless of the cause, if 8-way processing takes more than twice as long as 4-way processing, it's better to do 4-way.
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (229,492)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,733)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,552,869)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,385)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,117)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (139,802)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,073,792)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (122,712)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (122,944)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,000,599)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (515,556)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,561,511)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (255,612)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,151,359)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,308,361)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,512,440)
Message 66118 - Posted: 29 May 2013 | 18:30:08 UTC - in response to Message 66114.

i5 WU: http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=336493532 (112k sec)
i7 WU: http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=336464178 (158k sec)


This is great result. You belong to only few peoples that have increased performance with HT = ON . Many others got drop in performance...
In your case

112000 /4 = 28000 per WU
158000 /8 = 19750 per WU.
So ideally will be 14000 per WU, but you result is near perfect. As long as you with HT enabled compute below 56000 per WU you have performance increased...
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Message 66127 - Posted: 29 May 2013 | 21:24:46 UTC - in response to Message 66118.
Last modified: 29 May 2013 | 21:28:07 UTC

you should probably find it's faster per wu to use only 6/8.


You belong to only few peoples that have increased performance with HT = ON .

have you tried for yourself to see what option gives the best times per wu?

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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (545,086)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (547,071)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (318,557)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,042,592)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (761,335)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,176,583)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (616,638)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,235)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,608)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (569,672)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (132,135)321 Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (31,434)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,236,416)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (718,547)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,027,562)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (212,111)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (228,486)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,096,000)
Message 66128 - Posted: 29 May 2013 | 21:41:48 UTC - in response to Message 66127.

you should probably find it's faster per wu to use only 6/8.


You belong to only few peoples that have increased performance with HT = ON .

have you tried for yourself to see what option gives the best times per wu?


I may try later, to see if 3/4 CPUs (6/8 cores) gives me better time, but it's not a big deal. The only thing I really note is that when running 8/8 along w/ a PPS Sieve task, one of the Cullen (or any CPU-based) WUs suffers accordingly.

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Message 66134 - Posted: 29 May 2013 | 22:50:18 UTC - in response to Message 66128.
Last modified: 29 May 2013 | 22:50:48 UTC

you should probably find it's faster per wu to use only 6/8.


You belong to only few peoples that have increased performance with HT = ON .

have you tried for yourself to see what option gives the best times per wu?


I may try later, to see if 3/4 CPUs (6/8 cores) gives me better time, but it's not a big deal. The only thing I really note is that when running 8/8 along w/ a PPS Sieve task, one of the Cullen (or any CPU-based) WUs suffers accordingly.


that was really aimed at crunchi as he keeps saying that ht is slow for everyone but I don't think he's ever tried.
8/8 (or 12/12) is definitely slower per wu than 6/8 (9/12) on all my pcs - i7 970, 2600 and 3770.

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Message 66149 - Posted: 30 May 2013 | 9:31:14 UTC

darkclown's i5 and i7 are not comparable, simply by measuring HT "on" vs. "off". The i5-2400 is "mid range", while the i7-3820 is "extreme", with 0.5G faster clocks and 4GB more L3 cache.

I ran another test. This is an extension of a test I made earlier this month comparing the cache-miss effect on Sandy vs. Ivy. I posted about this on the AtP message board. At that time I was comparing the two processors, and not worrying about hyperthreading ("off" for all tests). Bottom line was that Ivy seemed more severely impacted under heavy load.

This time, I'm comparing HT "off" vs. HT "on", on the Ivy Bridge 3770K. I used prpnet instances to run the exact same Woodall number (11574717*2^11574717-1, which I had earlier run in boinc and had validated) 1 through 8 times in parallel (just to a few percent, long enough to let the timing stabilize). Nothing else going on on the box, not even GPU. These are the "time per iteration" values reported by LLR (3.8.9), so lower is faster (units ms.). Ubuntu 12.04.

HT off:
1: 6.239
2: 6.657
3: 7.789
4: 9.940

HT on:
1: 6.229
2: 6.634
3: 7.649
4: 9.712
5: ~12.9
6: ~15.0
7: ~18.2
8: 20.624

The times for 5-7 are rougher averages over the various LLR instances, as you never know at any given point which one will be forced to "share", and which will have a dedicated core. The scheduler keeps them pretty well balanced when there are 4 or fewer, or 8.

Of course remember this is one machine, running one number. Your mileage may vary.

--Gary

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Message 66150 - Posted: 30 May 2013 | 10:13:52 UTC - in response to Message 66149.

If I read that correctly it shows that 6 cores is best for you too.

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Message 66190 - Posted: 30 May 2013 | 21:33:07 UTC - in response to Message 66150.
Last modified: 30 May 2013 | 21:33:24 UTC

If I read that correctly it shows that 6 cores is best for you too.


HT off:
1: 6.239
2: 6.657
3: 7.789
4: 9.940

HT on:
1: 6.229
2: 6.634
3: 7.649
4: 9.712
5: ~12.9/5 = 2.58
6: ~15.0/6 = 2.5
7: ~18.2/7 = 2.6
8: 20.624/8= 2.578

9.94/4=2,485 per WU when HT is off
20.624/8= 2.578 per WU when HT is on.

So what I see that result with HT is always slower. Even sweet spot of 6 WU (with HT) have average 2.5 vs 2,485 (without HT)
____________
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57*2^3339932-1 MEGA PRIME :)
4 *737^269302+1 GENERALIZED FERMAT :)
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Message 66192 - Posted: 30 May 2013 | 21:44:02 UTC

Apart from sieving maybe ;).

+ as the credit/time is now the same for all LLR projects, the above tests will be the same for every other subproj I would assume.

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Message 66193 - Posted: 30 May 2013 | 21:48:13 UTC - in response to Message 66192.

In sieving my I7-2700K got about 18% increase when using HT
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Message 66195 - Posted: 30 May 2013 | 22:14:37 UTC - in response to Message 66190.

If I read that correctly it shows that 6 cores is best for you too.

9.94/4=2,485 per WU when HT is off
20.624/8= 2.578 per WU when HT is on.

So what I see that result with HT is always slower. Even sweet spot of 6 WU (with HT) have average 2.5 vs 2,485 (without HT)

yes, but
6: ~15.0/6 = 2.5
and then you can have 2 cores for GPU work + whatever else you're doing on your pc (which doesn't use anywhere near as much cpu as if they were doing llr) while only being slightly slower overall/wu than using just 4 cores for CPU only work.

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Message 66197 - Posted: 30 May 2013 | 22:39:07 UTC - in response to Message 66195.

In that case, you are right :)
Since I do just LLR-ing I put HT off :)
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57*2^3339932-1 MEGA PRIME :)
4 *737^269302+1 GENERALIZED FERMAT :)
Proud member of team Aggie The Pew. Go Aggie!

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