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Message boards : Cullen/Woodall prime search : Woo LLR wu's

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Profile Buga1
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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (540,189)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (720,277)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (317,183)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (656,220)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,816)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (935,524)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (193,155)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (198,988)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (414,708)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,585,964)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,819,785)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,229,825)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,994,490)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (810,121)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (254,025)
Message 64013 - Posted: 31 Mar 2013 | 18:44:12 UTC
Last modified: 31 Mar 2013 | 18:46:53 UTC

After a challenge I normally set up my systems to get a few of the next challenge wu's to test. So after the last challenge I did that. I got 4 wu's (wooLLR) and let them go. It has been some days so I went to check them. At around 55% done they have been running 137 hours. Calculating it out, it is going to take more than 8 days, which is the length of the next challenge.

Wondering if there is something I can do to speed them up?

They are running on somewhat older systems. Both q6600 cpu's. Each has a different motherboard and ram, but are running same in wu speed.

My main concern, even if they are long wu's, is finishing them in time during a challenge.

Thanks
Rick

Edit. I did want to add on almost all other wu types, my system will be close the the avg time listed in the sub-projects. But not these.

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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,152,064)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,157,331)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,179,211)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,330,821)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,251,715)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,067,903)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,859,609)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,680,461)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,313)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,145,077)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,085,723)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,162,350)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,877,196)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (38,036,953)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,426,791)
Message 64014 - Posted: 31 Mar 2013 | 18:57:30 UTC - in response to Message 64013.

After a challenge I normally set up my systems to get a few of the next challenge wu's to test. So after the last challenge I did that. I got 4 wu's (wooLLR) and let them go. It has been some days so I went to check them. At around 55% done they have been running 137 hours. Calculating it out, it is going to take more than 8 days, which is the length of the next challenge.

Wondering if there is something I can do to speed them up?

They are running on somewhat older systems. Both q6600 cpu's. Each has a different motherboard and ram, but are running same in wu speed.

My main concern, even if they are long wu's, is finishing them in time during a challenge.

Thanks
Rick

Edit. I did want to add on almost all other wu types, my system will be close the the avg time listed in the sub-projects. But not these.


You should see what happens when you run 3 tasks instead of 4. *ALL* prime searches are searching larger numbers than they were searching only a couple of years ago. Bigger numbers mean more digits; more digits mean more memory is used.

The more memory you use, the larger the percentage of memory accesses that are going to not be fulfilled by the CPU's cache. Since the cache is MUCH faster than regular memory, cache misses can significantly slow down the program.

Running multiple copies of LLR uses even more memory, and increases the percentage of cache misses, which causes LLR to run slower.

When I started crunching here in 2010, multi-core CPUs were first becoming common, especially quad core CPUs, and people were starting to notice an inexplicable slowdown when running multiple copies of LLR. It's now pretty obvious that the cause is cache misses.

While the amount of memory used has increased over the years, the amount of cache in your hardware is exactly the same, so running multiple LLR's on your Q6600s is going to have a greater penalty than before. My computer is a Q6600, and it certainly seems that running 4 LLR tasks slows down more now than it used to years ago.
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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (540,189)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (720,277)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (317,183)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (656,220)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,816)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (935,524)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (193,155)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (198,988)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (414,708)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,585,964)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,819,785)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,229,825)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,994,490)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (810,121)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (254,025)
Message 64016 - Posted: 31 Mar 2013 | 21:43:46 UTC - in response to Message 64014.



You should see what happens when you run 3 tasks instead of 4. *ALL* prime searches are searching larger numbers than they were searching only a couple of years ago. Bigger numbers mean more digits; more digits mean more memory is used.

The more memory you use, the larger the percentage of memory accesses that are going to not be fulfilled by the CPU's cache. Since the cache is MUCH faster than regular memory, cache misses can significantly slow down the program.

Running multiple copies of LLR uses even more memory, and increases the percentage of cache misses, which causes LLR to run slower.

When I started crunching here in 2010, multi-core CPUs were first becoming common, especially quad core CPUs, and people were starting to notice an inexplicable slowdown when running multiple copies of LLR. It's now pretty obvious that the cause is cache misses.

While the amount of memory used has increased over the years, the amount of cache in your hardware is exactly the same, so running multiple LLR's on your Q6600s is going to have a greater penalty than before. My computer is a Q6600, and it certainly seems that running 4 LLR tasks slows down more now than it used to years ago.


Thanks for that Micheal. I will give it anothor test only running 3 or maybe even 2 and see what happens. I do only have 4gb of ram in each system.

Thanks
Rick

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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,152,064)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,157,331)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,179,211)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,330,821)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,251,715)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,067,903)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,859,609)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,680,461)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,313)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,145,077)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,085,723)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,162,350)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,877,196)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (38,036,953)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,426,791)
Message 64018 - Posted: 1 Apr 2013 | 0:24:20 UTC - in response to Message 64016.


Thanks for that Micheal. I will give it anothor test only running 3 or maybe even 2 and see what happens. I do only have 4gb of ram in each system.

Thanks
Rick


The amount of RAM you have doesn't matter that much (4 GB is way more than you need.) It's the amount of cache memory that's built into the CPU that's important.

I'm running a TRP-LLR task right now and it's using less than 25 MB. For main memory, that's nothing. For cache, it can be a lot.
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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (547,769)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (158,867)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (162,534)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (134,373)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (510,012)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (266,757)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (510,560)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (242,439)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (508,989)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,123)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (229,801)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,317,221)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,147)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (333,494)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (24,117)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,730,320)
Message 64108 - Posted: 5 Apr 2013 | 21:27:40 UTC

I am using a i5-2450M at 3.1Ghz and even with 3 tasks I find I cannot get one task finished it the eight days of the challenge.

The pair of older desktops are OK with under a hundred hours running 2 tasks at a time.

CPUID says I have 2 CPU on the i5 so perhaps I need to find out how to stop them doing double duty.

A lot of people are going to have trouble getting any work done in the challenge period. I make it that since the last WOO/CUL challenge the challenge has increased from 5 to 8 days but the tasks take about 3 times as long, but I am not certain I am actually using data from the last WOO/CUL challenge or an earlier one. The effect is the same -- some computers take longer than the challenge period to do any tasks.

We may have to have month long challenges before long.
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321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,405)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,734,854)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,421,149)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,576,209)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,825,243)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,352,326)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,986,628)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,248,659)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,707,348)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,416,106)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,400,237)321 Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,000,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,000,977)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,843,367)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (71,422,417)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,473,750)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,243,608)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,879,269)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (148,035,127)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,042,125)
Message 64109 - Posted: 5 Apr 2013 | 21:47:06 UTC - in response to Message 64108.

I am using a i5-2450M at 3.1Ghz and even with 3 tasks I find I cannot get one task finished it the eight days of the challenge.

The HT on these boxes causes issues. Just run two and they will run a lot faster than 3. You should be able to get 4 done in the time you do 3 now with only running two. LLR wreaks havoc on HT machines. Give it a try.

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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (540,189)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (720,277)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (317,183)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (656,220)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,816)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (935,524)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (193,155)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (198,988)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (414,708)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,585,964)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,819,785)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,229,825)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,994,490)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (810,121)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (254,025)
Message 64181 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013 | 17:07:33 UTC

Finally started on a new batch of them and limited it to 2 wu's at once. Running much faster. Right around the 100 hour mark by the time it ends. About 1% and hour. Will test the other machine with 1 @ a time next.

Rick

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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,233)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (197,031)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (39,705)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (31,296)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (58,578)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (776,253)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,695,630)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (272,141)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (12,323)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (192,126)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (117,272)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,662)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,240,756)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,156,473)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (241,200)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (481,117)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,245,030)
Message 64793 - Posted: 2 May 2013 | 12:48:44 UTC

I'm also noticing very long expected work times.

On a Core 2 Quad Q9450, running 1 task, it's estimating another 141 hours
On a Core i7 930, that was running 5 tasks, estimated 178 hours.

My other two crunching systems (a Core i5 660 and an AMD FX-8120) running 2 and 4 tasks, are showing just under 70 hours remaining.

Thinking about HT, I just cut the i7 down to 3 tasks. We'll see what happens as it continues to run today.
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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (547,769)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (158,867)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (162,534)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (134,373)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (510,012)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (266,757)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (510,560)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (242,439)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (508,989)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,123)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (229,801)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,317,221)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,147)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (333,494)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (24,117)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,730,320)
Message 64819 - Posted: 2 May 2013 | 20:52:20 UTC - in response to Message 64793.

I'm also noticing very long expected work times.

On a Core 2 Quad Q9450, running 1 task, it's estimating another 141 hours
On a Core i7 930, that was running 5 tasks, estimated 178 hours.




Don't trust the BOINC time estimates, they are often excessive.

I spent 2 weeks playing with this problem on my systems and now run 2 on each unit. The core 2 systems will do about 3.8 or 4 if I am lucky, the i5 will do 4 and two halves in the 8 day challenge. For many there will be a low WU return for this challenge, so every one for the team will be valuable.

It is far more challenging than many of the challenges have been recently. Good luck to all.
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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,233)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (197,031)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (39,705)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (31,296)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (58,578)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (776,253)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,695,630)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (272,141)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (12,323)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (192,126)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (117,272)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,662)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,240,756)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,156,473)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (241,200)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (481,117)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,245,030)
Message 64824 - Posted: 3 May 2013 | 0:56:53 UTC - in response to Message 64819.

Manually calculating how much time I estimate (Time remaining = (TimeDone/%complete) - TimeDone) they should finish during the challenge, but still around 100 total hours (I aborted two WUs on the i7 to free up some cache and what not). Still seems like a long time on processors that aren't super old (the Q9450 blows away anyone that's using a Q6600 and a first gen i3/5, and the i7 isn't too shabby either). I think I tracked down my estimate problem though - the two systems that are reporting extra long times are running the nightly boinc from git (have to compile from source on Fedora for GPU computing to work), where as the other two are still 7.0.x (one is a Win box, the other I built quite a while ago).
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321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,405)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,734,854)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,421,149)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,576,209)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,825,243)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,352,326)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,986,628)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,248,659)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,707,348)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,416,106)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,400,237)321 Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,000,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,000,977)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,843,367)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (71,422,417)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,473,750)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,243,608)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,879,269)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (148,035,127)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,042,125)
Message 64836 - Posted: 3 May 2013 | 10:09:19 UTC - in response to Message 64824.

Still seems like a long time on processors that aren't super old.

These are super large numbers. I have an I7 that will only finish 1 set before the end of the challenge. I have an I7 with AVX that should finish 5 or 6 sets. So the processor type does make a difference. My Q6600 is almost keeping up with my oldest I7.

So you are not seeing anything wrong with your systems. The only thing is that HT can cause a lot of slowdown for LLR tasks. Cache misses are enormous with these big numbers with HT on.



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